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Old 03-29-2017, 06:01 AM   #551 (permalink)
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SL pls.



great now the Viewer will tell you what to do and what not to...



good job users, you did it again you forced me to find a way to stop your brain malfunctions.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:44 AM   #552 (permalink)
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Oh what could this be...

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Old 04-01-2017, 04:40 PM   #553 (permalink)
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:02 AM   #554 (permalink)
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Black Dragon - Update 2.6.9



Code:
Added: Show an automated message whenever someone not in my friendlist opens a conversation with me.
Added: Missing optional XML parameters to panel.xml.
Added: Ability to flag scrolllist entries for easy removal later.
Added: New floater that allows manipulation of animations around you including your own avatar.
- Allows temporarily saving animations into a list for playing them on avatars.
- Allows creating/adding new animations to the list from a UUID.
- Allows removing entries from the list to get rid of unwanted animations.
- Allows viewing general information about saved animations such as their duration and if they loop.
- Allows playing anyone's animations including your own, at any speed you want, including backwards.
- Allows freezing avatar animations.
- Allows stopping all animations.
- Allows restarting currently playing animations, useful for synchronizing dances.
Added: Option to disable other people's attached lights without removing your own.
Added: Option to disable projector images being reflected in shiny surfaces.
Added: Option for projector images to 'Display' tab for easy toggling.
Changed: Made getting the my UUID a global centralized function of gAgent.
Changed: Allow global time factor being altered all the way down to pause via menu.
Changed: Layout of 'Uploads' tab to match all others.
Changed: Version to 2.6.9.
Fixed: Borderless Window Mode being greyed out if for some reason the defunct FullScreen debug was still enabled.
Fixed: Wrong layout panel name for local chat 'Chat History' button.
Fixed: Missing separators in some keybinding action menus.
Fixed: About Viewer floater throwing XML warnings.
Fixed: Focus point not resetting when zooming on something or someone and changing to a different camera preset.
Fixed: Default Upload Folder tab not appearing in preferences.
Fixed: 'Browser' tab's layout not exactly matching that of all others.
Removed: All languages except german and english.
Misc: Removal of unused code.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:56 PM   #555 (permalink)
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Black Dragon - Update 2.7.0 - Decaying Dragon



Code:
Added (WIP): Pose manipulation to 'Animation Manipulation' floater. Not functional yet.
Added: Human readable action names to keybinding lists.
Added (WIP): Ability to simple change/replace single keybinds. Not functional yet.
Changed: Renamed 'Move Forward/Backwards' (camera) to Zoom In/Out.
Changed: Keybinding column widths to fit everything in.
Changed: Relabeled 'Region' to 'Land Options' in german UI to match the english one.
Changed: Overhauled 'Script Information' floater layout.
Changed: Version to 2.7.0 - Decaying Dragon.
Fixed: Line Endings in llpanellogin.cpp.
Fixed: Login button being greyed out for firt timers since LL code merge.
Fixed: Line Endings in llfloaterpreferences.cpp.
Fixed: Special keys like Enter not immediately registering after ticking any mask checkbox.
Removed: UUID line editor and 'Create' button from the 'Animation Manipulation' floater.
Note: When fixing a login button and adding properly readable names are your version highlights you know you ran out of ideas what to do.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:48 AM   #556 (permalink)
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You could always do what Henri just did with Cool VL Viewer and add Lua scripting support so people can make up their own little wants/needs. lol
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:04 AM   #557 (permalink)
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I'm sure there's a myraid of small suggestions easy enough to add that wouldn't cause overhead.

If you're really adventurous, you could revisit trying to undo the CHUI.

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Old 04-13-2017, 11:57 AM   #558 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord View Post
You could always do what Henri just did with Cool VL Viewer and add Lua scripting support so people can make up their own little wants/needs. lol
Pretty sure that to add Lua scripting i would have to be able to understand and write Lua myself first before i can even think of tackling that not to mention that adding an entirely new scripting language used as addon/plugin system into SL is far beyond my skillset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurkearan View Post
I'm sure there's a myraid of small suggestions easy enough to add that wouldn't cause overhead.

If you're really adventurous, you could revisit trying to undo the CHUI.

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True, there are many things i could add without much (or any for that matter) overhead, the question is if i want them. The animation floater is a good example how that works, i've declined animation sync so many times in the past and said i'll never add this feature. When i got around to do the animation floater there was the opportunity to add this without actually implementing the feature itself. In other words, i like doing stuff my own way, adding a whole floater for manipulating animations in all kinds of ways including restarting them for testing purposes (i used it to test if animations still desync when they are slowed) which could be used to sync animations. I did not add animation sync but a simple animation restart feature as a part of a bigger feature, it having the capability to sync animations (or dances like so many people use it for) is more accidental than actually a feature.

About CHUI: It's on my to-do list to try it again at some point, i haven't yet tried it because i deem it as massive time waste as i'm extremely confidential that i will most likely fail at re-implementing the old system and thus wasting all the time i put into this unnecessarily delaying whatever i could have been working on instead.

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Old 04-13-2017, 01:16 PM   #559 (permalink)
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If you don't have anything else, though, then there's really nothing to lose.

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Old 04-13-2017, 03:19 PM   #560 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurkearan View Post
If you don't have anything else, though, then there's really nothing to lose.

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My integrity as extremely selective developer.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:32 PM   #561 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Note: When fixing a login button and adding properly readable names are your version highlights you know you ran out of ideas what to do.
You could always fix it so that a person can view their $L in the UI without having to open the inventory window


But, other than that, the viewer is looking great and I know you have been putting some hard work into it lately. Thank you!
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:18 PM   #562 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
My integrity as extremely selective developer.
If it's already on your to-do list, and there's nothing else you want to do, how does it damage your integrity?
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:10 PM   #563 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soda Sullivan View Post
You could always fix it so that a person can view their $L in the UI without having to open the inventory window


But, other than that, the viewer is looking great and I know you have been putting some hard work into it lately. Thank you!
Hahahah nice try, i see you haven't given up on that one yet but my decision was made and i won't change it, unless i change it.

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If it's already on your to-do list, and there's nothing else you want to do, how does it damage your integrity?
It was meant in general, not specific to this case. In this case specifically there's not much to lose other than 1-7 days of work.
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:48 PM   #564 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz Linden
  • Playing an animation on someone else.
    People are entitled to know how their character is being presented and to remain in control of that presentation. While blocking or muting someones avatar is ok because it limits abuse by others through avatar features, there's no reason to support making someone else do something - especiallly since they won't even know it's happening. This feature seems to us to be both too easy to abuse (think videos of you doing something you didn't do being posted in public places) and a violation of the shared experience (you see someone doing one thing, they and others see something else). Please remove this feature ASAP.
  • Saving animations from others.
    Since animations are often commercial items, this is essentially copybotting and must be removed immediately.
Well that's it for my last week's work.
This is why we can't have nice things folks. A literal handful of jealous partners playing certain WW2 animations on their ex and faking abuse reports to get them potentially banned. Oh the cruel world. Well it was too nice to have anyway, for the first time i could play those walking/running animations while walking around before buying them to find out if they fit the walking speed at all and if i'm going to pay for something that ends up never being used.

TL;DR Next update is going to remove the animation floater and all its features.

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Old 04-18-2017, 08:14 PM   #565 (permalink)
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This is why we can't have nice things! That feature was going to make a performance i was working on 100 times easier.
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:35 PM   #566 (permalink)
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Doesn't surprise me that Oz doesn't see a use for group animation features.

Did the feature Oz called "copybotting" actually let you save animations from others? Or did it just let you play, on your own avatar, animations that were currently in the scene?
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:11 AM   #567 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Patton View Post
Doesn't surprise me that Oz doesn't see a use for group animation features.

Did the feature Oz called "copybotting" actually let you save animations from others? Or did it just let you play, on your own avatar, animations that were currently in the scene?
As stated to him and previously explained on the release post of this feature, you can "save" as in add motions that the Viewer always creates internally into a list of "remembered" motions, these motions can then be played on both you or anyone else as long as you don't close the window in which's case it will get cleared and your "remembered" motions are gone and you have to re-add them to the list to be interactable.

In other words, no saving, just surfacing animations from the Viewer's database into the UI so they can be easily interacted with (you could do all of this internally but it would make it more complex). You are basically just telling the Viewer to look into its known animations database and find animation XYZ and play it.

The reason Oz calls this copybotting is because it allows you to play animations you don't directly own in your own inventory, even if just locally.

The best part of this was, i could go to Kuso, sit on the animation preview stands, play the run/walk animations, save them, step off and play them, then run around to check if they match the walk or run speed and if i really want it. Same goes for stand, standup, crouch and other animations as these often have certain problems with hip height in combination with your shape size... but ohwell, we can't have nice things, at all.

Have a lazy snapshot of my new bunker as sorry



While we are at "fancy graphics" topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz Linden
We are trying to be liberal with respect to graphics features, and in fact at some point we will likely want to see if some of yours (the crepuscular rays in particular) can be imported to the main viewer (next time we enhance windlight settings, which I hope won't be too far down the road).

These things are all judgement calls ... if there were clear lines everyones lives would be easier, but there aren't.
Yup. Confirmed. Graphics violate the shared experience! My Viewer violates the shared experience! You've been living a lie. Everything is a lie! A LIE!

I'll remove all graphic improvements next update.

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Old 04-21-2017, 02:47 PM   #568 (permalink)
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I'm surprised it took Linden Lab this long to say something. Honestly it should have been obvious that it's not something you put in a publicly available viewer. Well, obvious to most people.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:59 PM   #569 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'm surprised it took Linden Lab this long to say something. Honestly it should have been obvious that it's not something you put in a publicly available viewer. Well, obvious to most people.
Oz wouldn't have said anything if it wasn't me who reached out to Oz and ask him personally about it.

And no, honestly it is everything but obvious that this feature shouldn't be in a "publicly available viewer", the reasons are obvious why this is a massive hole in their vague statements they call "ToS".
  • The fact that you can take any picture and photoshop it to make fake claims against someone.
  • The fact that you can use the local bitmaps feature to freely show any texture of your liking on a prim attached to your HUD to fake internal abuse report snapshots (with the Abuse Report feature)
  • The fact that there have been multiple features in the past that have caused more trouble than they are worth (such as named LookAt's) and Linden Labs has done nothing against them.
  • The fact that you can use derender to create faked screenshots of someone doing something he isn't, like running around naked on PG SIMs.
  • The fact that Oz clearly stated that these are all judgement calls DUE to their every rule being vague about literally everything.
  • The fact that this feature is 100% local.
  • The fact that this feature is not capable of saving any animations permanently.
  • The fact that this feature has massive potential for machinima, photography and even helps with decisions whether you should buy that animation or not as you can test them live (as i previously explained) without being able to permanently have them (i just described a temp DEMO basically).
  • The fact that you can use almost any feature to do something bad. Hell you can use scripted textbox input popups or hidden object IMs to grief/slow/crash someone.
  • The fact that there were multiple ToS violating features in the past that helped shaping SL to what it is now. Materials is one. Multiattach (or double attachment slots) is another. Both violating the TPV rules. Hell, Oz even clearly implied that all graphical changes are a violation against the TPV rules, they are just not acting on them because (see above) all of these are judgement calls.
  • The fact that implementation of such features and the potential promotion of these might lead to even better features or general improvements (which happened in the past, see Multiattach) such as, what i was working on based on this, a feature that allows posing yourself locally without having to upload animations which again could have been something LL might have declined as it would eliminate the need to pay 10L$ for an animation upload everytime you want a new pose for a picture.

Nothing is obvious, this is a giant back-and-forth clusterfuck. Almost every feature can be used for both bad and good unless we are talking obvious content thievery, griefing, crashing, DDoSing and such. Although, even copybotting does have a good side, you can save content and transfer it to other grids, from Aditi to Agni for example, given you put proper restrictions on this feature (permission controls and owner checks for example).

I do understand what Oz means with "this is essentially copybotting" but then again here are two facts:
A: You are not saving anything. You are merely exposing the list of known animations (which as i explained is written by the Viewer anyway) and make them temporarily playable.
B: Everything is 100% local and extremely temporary, close the window and your list is gone, you cannot play animations into the world which is more often than not the whole purpose of said animation. Playing a dance in a club? too bad no one sees it, kinda defeats the purpose of playing it right?

And Oz's weak reasons for "abuse" are.... well... just that, weak excuses. As listed above everything is abuseable, this is a shit reason to prohibit a feature.

I'll just remind you one last time that if i wouldn't give a flying fuck about these vague TPV rules most of the time my Viewer wouldn't exist, nor would Oz's request to have me implement godrays into the official Viewer and overhaul the Windlight system. If i wouldn't constantly push for better graphics in SL, no one would. Firestorm can't. Alchemy keeps everything for itself, Exodus is dead (btw Exodus implemented Materials) and even if it was still alive wouldn't be pushing for anything graphics wise anymore as pushing anything graphic related to LL is a chore and all other Viewers are not even trying (not that i know of). You know, the only reason i sucked Geenz dick so hard to get Exodus's Post Processing stack is so i can keep it active and alive, show it to people, otherwise it might have just vanished with Exodus. Motion Blur, although pretty much perfectly fine and originally coming from LL themselves is in a similar spot. If i hadn't found it long ago, broken and incompatible with Mesh, Fitted Mesh and Bento and fixed it, it would be long gone and no one would even know it ever existed, at the moment not even LL wants it. The only thing i fear is that i won't be able to push these features to LL due to these features originating from someone else or LL coming up with even more stupid excuses of "broken content".

SL is in a very sad state to be honest. It's pointless. Many have seen that long before me, i'm just too stubborn to give up on it.

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Old 04-21-2017, 08:17 PM   #570 (permalink)
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I miss Exodus.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:56 PM   #571 (permalink)
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I wish LL would implement the specular shaders Black Dragon uses. Specular looks like garbage in every other viewer.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:16 AM   #572 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I wish LL would implement the specular shaders Black Dragon uses. Specular looks like garbage in every other viewer.
Black Dragon uses the same specular shaders the Official does, there is only a tiny difference.

It is a prime example of Linden Labs purposely breaking deferred content to satisfy people who cried about their shitty pre-deferred graphics, in fact i was told the original change was initially proposed by a Linden. It's 5 1/2 years already since i "officially" denounced the support of Linden Lab's shit TPV rules and said "fuck it, i'll differ", 5 1/2 years since my Viewer had the first real graphical change that would (in theory) hard-violate their shared experience rule as you see shiny in my Viewer like it was prior to this change. Only just last month i added the option to optionally display the removed environment map again if you so desire. See STORM-2146. It should be quite obvious that LL did not support it even with me already working on a solution that would make everyone happy. LL does not want to change it nor do they want to even add the ability to turn it off. My last hope to change it is the upcoming Windlight overhaul, as the environment map could be made Windlight specific, which could in theory not only allow it to be used to make specific Windlights even cooler but also remove the broken environment map or use an environment map that reflects the skybox of a city or something to give shiny surfaces the illusion of reflecting the actual environment rather than a grey pile of shit.

To be honest, i wouldn't get my hopes up, not at all. They will most likely decline any proposals i make.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:09 AM   #573 (permalink)
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In all seriousness playing animations on other avatars without their permission is an insanely fun and you can have a lot of laughs making an entire region of people dance against their will, while they don't even see it.

It also can be used for unacceptable amounts of personal trolling.

Putting up youtube videos of your personal avatar doing personal things it never actually did and would never want it to do isn't going to be a fun experience.

The potential for trolling is insane.

I don't really see why anyone wouldn't see eye to eye with Oz on this one, sorry.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:17 AM   #574 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Black Dragon uses the same specular shaders the Official does, there is only a tiny difference.
They did this on purpose? This is beyond incompetence.

This is why I have no faith in LL. This is why I'm convinced Sansar is going to be a monumental flop. They don't know how not to fuck up.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:43 AM   #575 (permalink)
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I don't really see why anyone wouldn't see eye to eye with Oz on this one, sorry.
I get where you're coming from on this but maybe this will help you understand why someone might disagree.

Have you ever seen one of those YouTube videos where someone took a character from a videogame, TV show or something, and made them do something that that character would never actually do, or the creators of said character would never make that character do?

It's the same thing.

A lot of people do not see an SL avatar as being indistinguishable from the person behind the keyboard, and they have a point. It's all role-play and dress-up to a degree. Characters in a game.

That said, I also agree that a lot, maybe most, SL users do have a very personal connection to their avatar. They don't see a distinction between themselves and their avatar and would take it extremely personally to see their character animated without their permission even in the most innocent context, let alone deliberate attempts at trolling.

I, personally, can't relate to that, but I understand it's how a lot of people feel and I, grudgingly, can see why LL would take that side.

Oz is totally off base with the "copybotting" comment, however. At least if I understand Niran correctly in how the animation preview thing worked. It was gone before I had a chance to try it.
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