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Old 03-26-2015, 12:54 PM   #301 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Also, that chat color bug is a bug, not a feature. Looks like changing the object link color changes it, which means it is spillover from the name link. How very annoying. That nolink> crap I kept seeing was a pretty good hint.
If you are talking about the later part of links being grey like this:

http://niranv-sl.blogspot.de/2015/03/black-dragon-viewer-update-242-beta.html

Then, this seems to be an intended feature of LL (didn't get the chance to ask Oz yet). Other than that i have really no idea what you are talking about then if not this.

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Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
I'll admit to being confused here then about why you'd want to look for these when you're not going to do anything with them other than say "it is how I want it to be, no way else, irritations are addressed only if I too find them to be so."
For the same reason i go to Inara and Maddy's blogs and come here to read this thread. Feedback. Just because i have a very clear plan of how i want things to be done and decline most suggestions about feature additions (which are often "i want X feature from Y Viewer") doesn't mean there isn't some sort of information i can gather and use. Adeon often had quite some nice ideas when asked for example. Do you realize how much feedback a single picture with UI enabled can give me?

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Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
* Especially when anything anyone could suggest already appears in Firestorm, which is by default a "No" just due to its inclusion in that viewer.
Labeled lookAt thread. Best example of why i refuse to add any Firestorm feature.

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Originally Posted by Spirits Rising View Post
You get pissed off when confronted with these facts? Good. You can change how you react (the smart option) or you can keep retreating until you have nowhere left to go (the way you'll likely go).
I tried it to be funny at start, nice afterwards, did it help? No. It doesn't matter to you if i try bringing up a problem without being an angry bitch. All that counts to you is that Niran said something and it must be shit like always.

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Either way is a win-win for everyone else except you.
And this is where you are wrong. Objectively seen there is no one gaining anything except me. If i quit, all you get is nothing, nothing will change and that is already exactly what you lose, you lose everything that i might have ever done for SL in the future (there are quite some things planned), so will everyone else. What i lose in comparison is neglectable, i will lose all my users and give up my TPV inclusion and we all should know by now how much i care about losing my users (note that losing a user to something stupid is an entirely different story than "large scale" user loss). On the positive side i would gain a lot of free time and a much lower blood pressure, i also won't need to fix bugs anymore and do all kinds of fancy stuff, maintain a blog and a forum, seek out for feedback everywhere, commit changes and all that stuff because it would be for me only anyway. You on the other hand lose a Viewer with a different approach of things and additional graphic and machinima features.

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Originally Posted by Spirits Rising View Post
You own nothing here Niran, not a single thing. You chose to flee that thread when it was clear no one was going to put up with your rage filled drama there.
That is solely a matter of perspective, i also didn't say i own anything, i said this is my Viewer thread, solely created for the purpose of sharing information about my Viewer, that "my" stands for i started this thread, i read this thread and discuss with people here, this is the main place to come and talk to me, sort of my lair if you like.

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Originally Posted by Ren Toxx View Post
Practicality. As he himself all but admitted (*), an unmoderated forum may invite more free thinking, and with it more interesting (to him) suggestions than a moderated blog; and even if that wasn’t quite so, having two sources of ideas would still be better than having just one.

(*) Note to NiranV: yes, that was probably a rather liberal reinterpretation of your words; but then again, there was no way I could’ve interpreted them more literally, not among so many invectives.
Yes that may be a rather liberal reinterpretation of my words but it nails it.
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Old 03-26-2015, 01:55 PM   #302 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
If you are talking about the later part of links being grey like this:

http://niranv-sl.blogspot.de/2015/03/black-dragon-viewer-update-242-beta.html

Then, this seems to be an intended feature of LL (didn't get the chance to ask Oz yet). Other than that i have really no idea what you are talking about then if not this.
No, that's not it at all.

Normally, in chat, you have the SPEAKER'S NAME and then the SPEAKER'S TEXT. The SPEAKER'S NAME is a clickable LINK and can be colored as chosen in settings, which is the same color as when someone types out a link for you in text. SPEAKER'S TEXT is always white.

Currently, SPEAKER'S TEXT is always LINK color. If you change LINK color, it changes the color of SPEAKER'S NAME. This is regardless of if they are a friend/contact or a stranger.

There's also "nolink>" trash text in notices and in viewing chat history.

It's a bug.



For clarity, this bug is best viewed in Compact text mode (without V3 chat headers).
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:01 PM   #303 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Labeled lookAt thread. Best example of why i refuse to add any Firestorm feature.
Not all Firestorm features have any tie to drama. In fact, you have one in your viewer right now: the pie menu.

Others that have no drama application:

* distance information from avatar in Nearby People floater.
* Optional removal of CHUI.
* Texture mirroring/flipping in build tools.
* Expanded/better build tools period.
* Allowing copy/editing of worn attachments.

Etc etc. Basically, ease of use items that really should be in the main viewer as it is. Including the one that is but you took out.
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:04 PM   #304 (permalink)
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Ahha! Compact Mode! That is an important little piece of information.

Tho i am sad to tell you but this bug seems to be fixed already , sorry for fixing these, i promise i won't do it again!

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Old 03-26-2015, 02:09 PM   #305 (permalink)
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But have you released the fix yet? That's the important part for a user.

Edit: and incidentally, the biggest irritation I have with Firestorm. It takes forever to see those fixes/features get released.

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Old 03-26-2015, 02:20 PM   #306 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Not all Firestorm features have any tie to drama. In fact, you have one in your viewer right now: the pie menu.
Pie menu is in there because it was in Kirstens. Doesn't matter where it originated. This feature was set in stone to be included long before any of my harsh rules applied, it was also decided outside of feature requesting and was included at the time i took over the Viewer and later made my own. It circumvented any rules and/or steps for feature inclusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Example: distance information from avatar in Nearby People floater.
Same as above, also this feature is planned to be re-implemented since a long time, just didn't yet figure out how to abuse this new private distance comparator LL put into the people floater without making a new one or making large parts of it public.

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Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Example: Optional removal of CHUI.
I wish CHUI did never crawl out of whatever hellish hole it came from.

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Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Example: Texture mirroring/flipping in build tools.
Put a minus in front of the scaling values.

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Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Example: Expanded/better build tools period.
QoL. Far from necessity. I also brought my own changes and twists to the build tools and i'm planning to add at least one more that may or may not make it into official.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Example: Allowing copy/editing of worn attachments.
Go ahead, tell LL to remove the if(isWorn) and i will happily merge it. Same with restore to last position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Etc etc. Basically, ease of use items that really should be in the main viewer as it is. Including the one that is but you took out.
Which one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
But have you released the fix yet? That's the important part for a user.

Edit: and incidentally, the biggest irritation I have with Firestorm. It takes forever to see those fixes/features get released.
You can have my current build. I can throw out as much updates as fast as i want, tho i would rather like to show at least some progress when writing down the changelog.

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Old 03-26-2015, 02:27 PM   #307 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Pie menu is in there because it was in Kirstens. Doesn't matter where it originated. This feature was set in stone to be included long before any of my harsh rules applied, it was also decided outside of feature requesting and was included at the time i took over the Viewer and later made my own. It circumvented any rules and/or steps for feature inclusion.
It's still also in Firestorm. And by an unfair law of SL, anything that appears in Firestorm is a Firestorm feature even if someone else should indeed have the credit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Same as above, also this feature is planned to be re-implemented since a long time, just didn't yet figure out how to abuse this new private distance comparator LL put into the people floater without making a new one or making large parts of it public.
Honestly, anything above 512m isn't that important if you're looking at the radar, at least imo. If someone's way the heck up in the sky then it doesn't matter how far, I don't have business there. If they're several sims over, that's arguable, but I wouldn't find it as important. It could just as easily just not print any value if they are too far away for accuracy/privacy concerns.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
I wish CHUI did never crawl out of whatever hellish hole it came from.
And the code exists out there to make it go away.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
QoL. Far from necessity. I also brought my own changes and twists to the build tools and i'm planning to add at least one more that may or may not make it into official.
Most of these aren't necessities. They're just wonderful to have. As you say, Quality of Life. The little things that make SL nice and fun are often what keeps or drives people away, and that goes for the default viewer too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Go ahead, tell LL to remove the if(isWorn) and i will happily merge it. Same with restore to last position.
I don't have to. It's in lots of TPVs as it is, but this does reinforce my notion that you strictly get your stuff from LL.


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Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Which one?
Forgot already? Expanding chat input.
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:44 PM   #308 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
It's still also in Firestorm. And by an unfair law of SL, anything that appears in Firestorm is a Firestorm feature even if someone else should indeed have the credit.
By that unfair law those features are now Kirsten's features and ultimately mine. Problem solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Honestly, anything above 512m isn't that important if you're looking at the radar, at least imo. If someone's way the heck up in the sky then it doesn't matter how far, I don't have business there. If they're several sims over, that's arguable, but I wouldn't find it as important. It could just as easily just not print any value if they are too far away for accuracy/privacy concerns.
Honestly, distance isn't important at all. It's just a small nice to have, tho far from important, you can just use the chat range rings as rough approximate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
And the code exists out there to make it go away.
And it's from Catznip, i remember that code not being publicly available yet tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
I don't have to. It's in lots of TPVs as it is, but this does reinforce my notion that you strictly get your stuff from LL.
As you can see, my opinion isn't easily changed, inclusion in many TPV's doesn't mean anything to me. I do not count a feature's inclusions into other Viewers.

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Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Forgot already? Expanding chat input.
Yes. I forgot about that. Wrote it down.
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:54 PM   #309 (permalink)
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There's about 3m where the chat ring isn't helpful. I still have to wear a radar script to know if I'm in chat range of someone or not, usually when I'm right on the chat ring line itself.

Catznip recently went to a modified CHUI. Have you tried asking over the code recently? Now that it's not in their viewer anymore they might be willing.
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:00 PM   #310 (permalink)
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Phone is a bit cumbersome. But on the "unfair law," if you ask anyone where the pie menu is from, they will say Firestorm, not Kirsten's. That is my point. By excluding anything in Firestorm you might be excluding work contributed as opposed to strictly their features.
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:38 PM   #311 (permalink)
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Ahem. The pie menu is from the LL version 1 viewer.
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:29 PM   #312 (permalink)
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Ahem. The pie menu is from the LL version 1 viewer.
I'm aware. But V1 is not a thing anymore beyond a couple of viewers. Kirsten figured out how to implement it in V2/V3. Ask someone brand new to SL, they will be unaware that the pie menu exists at all, until they try one of the third party viewers. Basically, it is now just a third party feature.
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:40 PM   #313 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
I'm aware. But V1 is not a thing anymore beyond a couple of viewers. Kirsten figured out how to implement it in V2/V3. Ask someone brand new to SL, they will be unaware that the pie menu exists at all, until they try one of the third party viewers. Basically, it is now just a third party feature.
As far as i remember the original pie menu in V2/3 came from one of the Phoenix/Firestorm members. Zi Ree if i remember right.
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:49 PM   #314 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
As far as i remember the original pie menu in V2/3 came from one of the Phoenix/Firestorm members. Zi Ree if i remember right.
*ponder*

Did it? Was that the thing Kirsten released early that got people really angry? I seem to remember drama over something but I couldn't remember what. Pie menu would make sense.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:11 PM   #315 (permalink)
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*ponder*

Did it? Was that the thing Kirsten released early that got people really angry? I seem to remember drama over something but I couldn't remember what. Pie menu would make sense.
No that was deferred for V1.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:16 PM   #316 (permalink)
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No, couldn't be... I feel reasonably positive this was during the days of V2.

Edit: Reason I feel this way, is back during the V1 days, I didn't give two flying fucks about viewers. Once V2 came out, I swapped over to it, then Catznip, and then to Kirsten's for a time when I heard about it. I was already using the viewer when the drama bomb hit but I still can't remember what it was over.

Last edited by Inhandra; 03-26-2015 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:47 PM   #317 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
No, couldn't be... I feel reasonably positive this was during the days of V2.

Edit: Reason I feel this way, is back during the V1 days, I didn't give two flying fucks about viewers. Once V2 came out, I swapped over to it, then Catznip, and then to Kirsten's for a time when I heard about it. I was already using the viewer when the drama bomb hit but I still can't remember what it was over.
Viewer 1 times was Deferred.
Viewer 2 times was generally him taking stuff from others without credit and LL early stuff that wasn't suppose to be out yet.
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:19 PM   #318 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Labeled lookAt thread. Best example of why i refuse to add any Firestorm feature.



I tried it to be funny at start, nice afterwards, did it help? No. It doesn't matter to you if i try bringing up a problem without being an angry bitch. All that counts to you is that Niran said something and it must be shit like always.
The above two items: That thread and your actions/reactins in it are prime examples of why your present approach to handling any kind of 'drama' or what you perviebe to be such ... simply does not work and has you coing off as a drama whore.

Second part: A prime example of you being a drama whore. I don't give a flying fuck who it is, when someone acts the way you have been, they are causing drama. When someone responds to humor of any kind the way you did, they are causing drama.

Are you getting the picture?

Drop the "oh you're just being this way because I'm me" shit. It's not who you are that causes people to react that way, its what you say, how you say it and how you act/react.

Literally anyone else with the same attitude problems would get the exact same responses.

Oh, and your response section concerning how I am 'wrong' about a win-win? Learn to properly read and comprehend what has been written. Nowhere did I say anything whatsoever about you 'quitting' or ceasing work on your TPV. Nowhere. That was all you. What I said was

Quote:
You get pissed off when confronted with these facts? Good. You can change how you react (the smart option) or you can keep retreating until you have nowhere left to go (the way you'll likely go).

Either way is a win-win for everyone else except you.
Which concerns your behavior, not your work.
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:35 PM   #319 (permalink)
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Old 03-26-2015, 08:26 PM   #320 (permalink)
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Viewer 2 times was generally him taking stuff from others without credit and LL early stuff that wasn't suppose to be out yet.
Thaaaat's gotta be it. I just can't remember what it was that got released early. Not that it matters anymore.

I could go on arguing why it's better to not blanket-statement stuff as forbidden just because it gets contributed to another viewer, but I think what would be better for you to hear is...

Let it go. Holding all that hate isn't healthy.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:34 PM   #321 (permalink)
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Holding all that hate isn't healthy.
I would rather say all that hate is what keeps me healthy or at least in a somewhat healthy condition to continue for now. Pretty sure i would probably be using LL Viewer now if i wasn't so hateful.

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Which concerns your behavior, not your work.
Ripped out and displayed separately like that it makes sense, yes. I'm sorry for misunderstanding. It doesn't change anything tho, my point still stands. Ultimately it would lead to giving up my work which then is as described a loss on your side.

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Second part: A prime example of you being a drama whore.
A prime example of you making me the drama whore again. I stated my opinion based on my observations with a tone that is appropriate for my current mood and this situation. You came in here. You're dragging that topic's drama in here and making me the drama whore. This whole discussion could have been evaded, on that matter the whole derailing drama over at the other topic could have been avoided simply by fixing the issue given in that topic, for that matter i will write another solution here.

Code:
#if DEV_VERSION
 blabla lookat code
#endif
Viewer devs compile their own version with autobuild configure -c ReleaseDev (FSDev, SinguDev, whatever, doesn't matter) and get the version with lookAt names, no normal user will have access to it (unless they will compile it themself). Viewer devs (or those very few self compilers) are people i consider not being idiots who'd abuse this feature and the average Joe won't have access to it, problem solved. It is really that easy. That is the problem with this goddamn community, the solution for so many problems are so easy, yet literally no one tries to apply these simple solutions and instead problems and their solutions no matter how thought out they are are dismissed.

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Old 03-27-2015, 12:35 AM   #322 (permalink)
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That is the problem with this goddamn community, the solution for so many problems are so easy, yet literally no one tries to apply these simple solutions and instead problems and their solutions no matter how thought out they are are dismissed.
I suspect the actual issue is that a vast majority of people simply don't see it as a problem. The "problem", you idiot, is in your own goddamn mind.

And I'll stop throwing the names at you when you stop insulting everyone who doesn't happen to agree with you. After all, that's your own policy with people, isn't it?
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:14 AM   #323 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Newman View Post
I suspect the actual issue is that a vast majority of people simply don't see it as a problem.
Stop repeating what i have been saying way too many times now, it won't make it any better.

People not seeing a problem as a problem IS the problem.

Labeled LookAt's is almost exclusively a drama causer and it is privacy invading on top of that. If you think that is not a problem then THAT IS indeed the problem. If we went up against all those little problems of SL like you do against me, they would have been fixed already. Instead you are wasting your time and energy on bashing a guy who's merely a messenger trying to point people at problems. You are wasting my time and energy, letting me continuously run against a wall because you ignore the issues pointed out. We are at the start again, nothing has changed.
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Old 03-27-2015, 09:44 AM   #324 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Stop repeating what i have been saying way too many times now, it won't make it any better.

People not seeing a problem as a problem IS the problem.
No.

If 30 people are telling you, repeatedly, that there is no problem, and you keep insisting there is one, think about it for a minute. Who is most likely to be right?

The problem is YOUR obsessive fixation on the issue. There is no "Yes, but..." or "But the real problem is...". It's pretty clear I'm not repeating what you've been saying... well, clear to everyone but you.

You keep looking around you saying "everyone else is wrong". You're looking into the wrong side of the mirror.
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Old 03-27-2015, 10:20 AM   #325 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiranV Dean View Post
Labeled LookAt's is almost exclusively a drama causer and it is privacy invading on top of that. If you think that is not a problem then THAT IS indeed the problem. If we went up against all those little problems of SL like you do against me, they would have been fixed already. Instead you are wasting your time and energy on bashing a guy who's merely a messenger trying to point people at problems. You are wasting my time and energy, letting me continuously run against a wall because you ignore the issues pointed out. We are at the start again, nothing has changed.
Now, as to these ridiculous arguments...

You keep claiming lookats are a major drama cause... I'm in SL almost every day, for hours at a time, in numerous crowded venues. It's literally been YEARS since I've seen any "lookat" drama. Hell, "partnering" in SL is bigger drama-bait than lookat.

And just EXACTLY how is it "privacy invading"? That's not a rhetorical question - I want SPECIFIC examples of how seeing lookat crosshairs is MORE invasive of your privacy than exactly the same situation and NOT seeking them. The ONLY difference is that you KNOW you're being perved when you can see the crosshairs. If anything, that PROTECTS your privacy by allowing you to change your behavior if you wish. But there IS no real privacy in SL. Never had been, and never will be. Privacy is an illusion, just like locks on doors.

You claim you can get the same information from just looking at the avatars and noting their eyes and head direction. That's complete and utter bullshit , and you know it.

Body language in SL LIES. Facing, head direction, and eye position are extremely unreliable indicators of where someone is looking. You also have to be pretty close to even see them. So if you're in a crowded club, for example, and some attractive, sexy AV is staring at you... how are you supposed to notice?

There's also the issue of range... since privacy is such a huge concern to you, how do you propose indicating when someone 1000m away is peeking around or watching what you're doing? Don't tell me it can't happen, it happened to me just this morning! Are you going to be constantly camming THEM to see where they are looking, and then getting nasty if they're even looking in your direction? Now if you want to talk about Drama Bait... There's a case where seeing their crosshairs can PREVENT drama.

You see yourself as a messenger - even a martyr. You come across, though, as a petty, insolent child who thinks there is only one proper way to "enjoy" SL, and never hesitates to tell anyone they're "doing it wrong" and that WE don't understand the problem.

We understand the problem quite well... and it's a much less important thing than any of the issues you constantly harp on.
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