Andromeda Rage

Actually, nope! SL is full of shiny happy people who would NEVER have ANY kind of sense of entitlement whatsoever!

Leah Mayo

Some viewers I can tell easily without tags, by inappropriate unicode characters in display names.

SimonLeo

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Get the land you want!

Ailsa Muliaina

Honestly, much as I liked being able to tell what viewer someone had to answer their questions, this is a real mountain from molehill thing. If you want to advertise your viewer of choice there are plenty of options. Join the viewer support group and have it shown in your groups, and or active. Wear one of those hovertext naming things. Stick it on a prim, a shirt, your butt...All of the above! If Firestorm/Phoenix users love their viewers enough they'll find a way.

In fact, some of your users probably have land... instead of bitching that LL are out to get TPVs, make a tasteful advert thing that gives out URLs to your website and hand it to your group members. If all the TPVs did something like that, folks like myself would happily advertise them. Someone could make a board with all the TPVs on it and a card with all the URLs.

There are plenty of ways to advertise your viewer without coding it into the viewer.

Elysium Hynes

I did one too.

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bronxelf

LL has been wanting to do this for a while. I said that in the other thread.

You knew this was coming, Arrehn. If *I* knew, (and I did) so did you. They don't want viewer tags visible because in the past 18 months, the v2 debacle taught them they didn't want to look like chumps when so many other people were visibly *NOT* using their product. They can't sell it as awesome when evidence shows that people are slow to or not adopting it at all.

Now that LL is on v3, they're making sure that history cannot repeat itself (though many people seem to like V3- I obviously am sticking with FS, because FS solves some dealbreaking problems for me, as you know.)

You KNEW this was coming when they stopped publicly publishing statistics on what viewers were being used on the grid in what percentages, and further *not allowing TPV developers to even discuss those stats* even when they knew what they were, and that was a long ass time ago, man.

They're not going to change their minds on this. They're trying to rein in what they perceive as a rogue herd of horses and focus the attention back to LL official products. I realize that word of mouth (or word of tag, as it were) is a vital component to keeping the userbase for TPVs strong and growing.

Dude.

That's why they're stopping it. Not rocket science. They're doing everything they can to throttle TPVs in such a way so as not to eliminate them (horse is out of the gate on that) but to make them as subservient and secondary a choice as possible to LL official viewer releases. That's their goal, and this is a very easy way to knock out a good chunk toward meeting it, when combined with the other TPV changes.

I use FS. I don't even *have* a LL official build on my computer *at all*. I have no intention of downloading one- LL official has dealbreaking UI/feature issues for me. I'm happy to tell anyone who asks what viewer I use.

But I'm telling you- you ain't winning this battle. Most people don't give the remotest tin shit about this, and LL is *actively* looking to suppress that information for their own purposes. This is a fight you can't win.

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Myf

Bullshit. They can:

• Wear a group tag with their chosen viewer's name in it
• Wear a titler with their chosen viewers name in the text
• Wear an item of clothing that displays their chosen viewer's name
• Carry round a prim placard with the name of their chosen written on it
• Declare loudly in local chat, the name of their chosen viewer, every few minutes
• Change their display name to "X Viewer User," or some iteration thereof

They could even just not bother about direct advertising, choosing instead to just answer honestly if someone asks them. For that matter they could even keep it private if they so chose.

* * * * *

What a seriously fuckwitted hill to try and defend.


- Myf McMahon, Firestorm User

Beezle Warburton

Oooo, maybe they could have their uterus announce their viewer preference every few minutes \o/

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bronxelf

Don't make me hate you, Beezle. Stop giving them ideas.

(disclaimer: there is no danger of my ever hating Beezle.)

Aribeth Zelin

My biggest issues with the new policies are - if I read it right, all the building tools I like to use are against the rules and thus out. And as a teacher, I find seeing viewer tags moderately useful to quickly help my students with problems.

The former issue is a bigger one - the tools available in TPVs that aren't in the official viewer make it easier to build when my wrists act up - they make it easier to make adjustments to prims in relation to my base when building - they make it possible to rotate build without having to mirror something first. Those are far bigger issues.

Another issue I've seen - again, far bigger than the tag one, is that if for some reason LL decided to not to allow the deformer for mesh attachments after all, nobody gets to use it. IT basically leaves us stuck with relying on LL to get what features we need and implement them, so we can have them - and that's dirty pool imo.

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Faerycat Designs In World -Marketplace 1- Marketplace 2

Andromeda Rage

I don't think any viewer-unique building tools are outlawed (someone correct me if I'm wrong? I know Oz directly confirmed on the official forums that viewer AOs and RLV are not subject to the new policy and are safe.)

Beezle Warburton

As long as they don't effect the shared experience they're fine.

Joshooah Lovenkraft

SECOND LIFE IS NOT A GAME! IT'S A LIFESTYLE!

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Andromeda Rage

I want to state right here, right now, that talking body parts ruin the "shared experience" for me and thus I demand they be outlawed.

Romana

Ruh-roh. Don't tell me the avi who keeps rezzing fresh copies of her Betty loud talking pregnant tummy has moved in next to you now?

Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk

Jack Belvedere

hi-5

And a real world where beating the system, cheat codes, etc are now an 'acceptable' way to do things.

Innula Zenovka

Nope, I don't think you are reading that bit right.

Here's Oz in the official forum:
And over in Inara Pey's blog,
While things like qarl's aligner are perfectly OK to put into TPVs, regardless of what the Official Viewer does, things like -- as you suggest -- his mesh deformer will run into problems if LL decide, in the end, not to adopt it, because that will mean mesh clothes look different depending on whether you're using a TPV that supports it or not.

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Brenda Connolly

I keep all tags off on my screen, I don't care what viewer you are using, what your group title is and if I want to know your name, I can scroll over you and find out, if I haven't already learned it from conversation. That being said, I wouldn't have a problem with viewer tags being an option, that the user can decide to see AND show, that had to be enabled manually from a default Off status. But, LL has decided otherwise and since SL is their product, they cam do so, and frankly at least in this instance, I'm fine with their decision.

MAYBE, just maybe, if a certain viewer hadn't decided to broadcast what viewer others were using without their consent, things would be different. But it's a little disingenuous to be crying about having an option taken away when you never gave the rest of us an option before. Tough noogies!

Evola

I'm sure LL could have suggested/demanded the feature be changed so that it had to be consensual too. Or even opt out. They could have demanded true online status be removed from viewers without disabling it server side, and breaking a lot of legit content, which probably affected a lot more people and businesses than actual stalkers/griefers inworld.


As for the viewer tags, I'd agree their removal isn't *that* big of a deal, it's more the primary motivations behind it(hiding their low retention rates with v2/3) and what's an incompetent if not counter productive solution at best.

bladyblue

these TPV Developers get absolutely nothing in return for the hundreds of hours of work. If displaying the name of the develop team will help them get some paid work, then it's not too much to ask for a constantly updated FREE product they distribute to anyone.

If it wasn't for these developers we would be using viewer 2 right now.

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Evola

FIFY It is a great point though.

Aribeth Zelin

To the responses to my post, all I have to say is I hope so - but it read as the opposite, that basically any tools that make one viewer better than another are outlawed - I guess we'll see, but I do hope they don't take my build tools - anything that makes my job easier when I'm building.

Midori Rotaru

simply they did and simply was ignored as what the mob wants err sorry users .

Cerise

I wish. Many times the hardest part of the battle is to learn what version, the most common response is "the latest" which as often as not means "the latest from 18 months ago", and most tag implementations were useless to make anything more clear.

Nebula

Its a tag. TPVS still are there. And if you really hate sl for doing this, leave.

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I used to program once, then I took an arrow to the knee.