Innula Zenovka

Thanks. I understand that. And am I correct in thinking you're using it in the second sense --"some people can't update to the latest version of Phoenix because it doesn't work on their machines, for whatever reason"?

Adeon Writer

This thread has me seriously considering upgrading to 7-64bit from Vista64.

Chalice Yao

Do it. Eeet ees nice.

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Kara Spengler

Exactly. It is unfortunate but it happened. At the time of the change people were already on a TPV version so there was no problem other than not seeing mesh. Now if the Lindens changed the rules retroactively those versions could not be allowed suddenly and people's only option to stay in SL is using another client if they can not upgrade. Even if they can, migrating to another client is not a painless option, especially for non-technical users. For many in the cannot-upgrade-or-change category that is not an option.

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Dolly

Windows 2000 did not have the stellar support for DirectX that XP did.

Dolly

In regard to mesh...I understand that it brought about some fundamental changes to the rendering engine, so I suppose that it is not possible to add a simple on/off switch to disable mesh completely, for those who are unable to use mesh viewers.

That said, I wonder why Phoenix in its mesh incarnations would make computers crash. Is this not simply a sign of code that is in need of further debugging or other means of stabilising? I really do not know, so I am curious...

Adeon Writer

Actually: There is an option for estates to not support mesh. If you use a mesh viewer and have mesh attachments and teleport to one of these regions, your meshes turn back into boxes while you are there. Now, the server is telling the viewer it doesn't' support mesh, but it must be the viewer that decides to render the meshes as a non-mesh viewer would; so I'd think it should be entirely possible to create a viewer option to do it whenever you want.

Wither or not that would comply with recent ToS changes, I don't know.

Innula Zenovka

I don't think that is an option (if it's still there -- I can't get in to check right now). It's never worked, at least not on regular estates, and the jira about it not working was closed as "expected behavior": https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2341

Casey Pelous

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Adeon Writer

Ah. But still, my point was it's possible for the viewer to mimic non-mesh viewer behavior: you can test this by taking your viewer to the beta grid, go to a mesh sim, your avatar is fine, teleport to one of the non-mesh sims (like the public sandboxes) and your mesh attachments automatically change to how everyone else sees you there. It's got to be the viewer doing that, I think.

Innula Zenovka

So the problem is, then, that some people have difficulty running any viewer that's capable of seeing what is now a standard content type.

Innula Zenovka

Or is it the sim telling the viewer what it's seeing? I ask because I don't know.

Argent Stonecutter

I was able to run every version of DirectX required by Second Life on it.

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The previous is a cybernetic datum published - in direct contravention of DoD Regulation #229RR3X3 - as being conducive to the physical, psychological and/or social well-being of the population.

Kadah Coba

I don't get stats on such, but I have heard from support and several Lindens that there are many that do. LL doesn't even officially support dialup, satalite, nor any high legacy ISP for use with SL.

Vista should be burnt in a fire.

flag day


On Monday I'll check what the usage of the pre-mesh version still is and see if its worth justifying an update. As of last week (week before that really), about 75% have so far updated to 1600 from 1185, which is still within the typical slow update adoption rate for Phoenix.

Kara Spengler

When LL first release mesh the code caused huge performance hits depending on your system. This is what was ported over and then incorporated into phoenix. Later fixes were done to mesh to bring the FPS to tolerable levels but AFAIK those fixes never made it to the 1.x viewers with the mesh patch. So even though mesh is more-or-less fixed (well, at least tolerable) right now the viewers that only got the initial version wound up taking a performance hit for their troubles.

Since the code is so integral probably you would need to fork each of the 1.x viewers into mesh viewers and nonmesh viewers and test all future releases on both branches. Which would be more than a headache than it would be worth with users being urged onto the 2.x and 3.x code base now.

Kara Spengler

Although a pretty minor component. Since the introduction of mesh I have only encountered it on the grid 3 times. An avatar with a sign saying it was mesh, a builder that created a test object, and a store selling some mesh clothing I was only in because I was talking to some friends who went there.

Kara Spengler

My first time connecting to the grid to meet Marianne:

I had to wait a few months for the available networking at my building to catch up to what I needed. When I did SL was the 2nd thing I did on the connection (1st was a speed test) and, yes, I remembered my password.

Innula Zenovka

But I thought you said you normally run Firestorm. Assuming it's a version that can see mesh, how would you know, unless you were looking closely, if someone's wearing mesh boots or pants, or whatever, or if a build is part mesh and part prim and sculpty?

And certainly mesh petites are very popular.

Adeon Writer

I don't think people using mesh viewers realize how many mesh objects they see, it's not even until you see a rigged mesh you really think mesh, non-rigged meshes always get passed as nice looking sculpts. Similarly, for non-mesh users, not every mesh creates ugly metaphor-breaking cubes, some scenes still look ok in their glitched state and go unnoticed.

Maggie

My, that is the nicest way that I've ever heard someone call XP64 a steamy moose loaf in the snow. Well done, very well done.

Siana Gearz

Don't take the stats as a good enough reason. Consider that most computers still running 64-bit Vista have pre-2008 GPUs.

Siana Gearz

Even Singularity Release with Mesh performs at double the speed of Phoenix with Mesh usually, although we released same weekend or so.

And we're constantly merging newest Linden renderer into upcoming release, although it has its problems so far, serious problems, which are holding us back. The tough ones are upstream bugs and not our own.

I'm fairly certain something is being done in CoolVL/Phoenix too, so you might see tolerable performance with current CoolVL and upcoming Phoenix too.

Roxy Couturier

Soen, the problem with that is that there -are- some bells and whistles that I've only seen in Phoenix/Firestorm.

For instance, having both the sim-wide radar and being able to not have my AV 'look' where my camera is pointing.

The first one I need as an officer of the sim I'm regularly at. I like being able to TP to a troublemaker rather than have to hunt for them. It doesn't happen often, but when I need it, I need it 'now'.

The second one annoys me no end. I HATE my head bobbing to a fro. I hate it more than canned vegetables. So much so I decided that the trade off for the true online status was worth it.

There are others, to be sure, but those two spring to mind and were largely responsible for me going back to Phoenix after the Emerald debacle. Well that and LGG joining Phoenix.

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Innula Zenovka

I don't know about the sim-wide radar, but the ability to stop your head following the camera is available in most TPVs, I think.

Argent Stonecutter

All that means is you don't get the annoying Aero effects, no?