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Old 03-01-2012, 09:15 AM   #1201 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade View Post
Even Chalice said afterward that she constantly heard things about Fractured/Phox but wasn't sure what to do because others within the project were still vetting them. Jessica became project lead overnight without knowing anything about this at all? I find that hard to believe.
Mind you, Jessical didn't decide that overnight. She and other devs who were pissed off at it all, instead of jumping ship, had talks in private about taking over the project beforehand instead of letting a few people ruin it for the whole userbase. Which, in the end, they did by grabbing the code, jumping ship and making Phoenix. Kind of like LGG did as a one-man show at first with Emergence.


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I totally read this as sexting a prim avatar. Twice. O:
Oh Murr >_>
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:18 AM   #1202 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chalice Yao View Post
Mind you, Jessical didn't decide that overnight. She and other devs who were pissed off at it all, instead of jumping ship, had talks in private about taking over the project beforehand instead of letting a few people ruin it for the whole userbase. Which, in the end, they did by grabbing the code, jumping ship and making Phoenix. Kind of like LGG did as a one-man show at first with Emergence.
LGG jumped ship before the shit hit the fan. Jessica waited until after the Lindens got involved and made it clear they were going to be blocking Emerald from accessing Second Life.

There's a recurring pattern here, and with Tonya as well: waiting to take a stand on issues requiring scruples until the hard choice of demonstrating principles is made easy by all other roads being removed by an external source. LL says that Emerald is getting blocked, she's suddenly (publicly, I don't care about what may or may not have been discussed privately when her public comments were opposite) got grave reservations about Fractured and wanted to start over fresh. LL says that true online status is going away, well they never wanted it in Firestorm at all!

Like I said before, it's easy to pretend principles when you can point to someone else and blame it on them.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:19 AM   #1203 (permalink)
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Also, Phoenix has never been the "majority" viewer. Hyperbolic estimates say half of the grid, more reasonable ones suggest a third of it. Certainly high numbers whichever way they shake out, but to say that people on the official viewer constitute a "small minority" is just a lie.
uhm… remember when even I started a poll in dec 2010 and made it known via all forums, and via twitter?

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Old 03-01-2012, 09:21 AM   #1204 (permalink)
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...You're assuming Jessica knew it was happening before it had already happened. As for taking control of the project, it was either that or let Phox kill it entirely. Which would YOU have chosen?
You realize that this is an argument that puts her in even worst ligth? the oh i didn´t knew it was happening, makes her look stupid Tonya, and makes me wonder how much does she know about all projects she is involved. The fact that she stayed along with individuals that commited not only one of them a criminal act and honestly i have to underline that, because most people seem to forget that what fractured did was one, while other members where discussing openly in breaking TOS, and laughing about the all situation. You ask what i would have chosen Tonya? I tell you what i would have chosen, i would certainly not associate my name with it in any shape or form, i would certainly not take out a couple of lines of code and rename it and pretend it was all brand new, and then expect people to forget what had happened.
I would certainly, and i garantee you that even consider adding features to a new viewer that where clearly left overs from emerald, and i would certainly not answer any disenting views with arogance or self entitlement.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:23 AM   #1205 (permalink)
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uhm… remember when even I started a poll last year and made it known via all forums, and via twitter?

Because everyone knows that's highly scientific.



How about you share the metrics behind the number of participants, sample size, where the poll was advertised and any other information to eliminate self-selecting discrepancies.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:26 AM   #1206 (permalink)
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...Like I said before, it's easy to pretend principles when you can point to someone else and blame it on them.
This so much, because all i see is people only doing the right thing when called on it. And is one of the reasons i admire LGG and even you Chalice.

LGG went out of his way and was the first dev to say publicy this is unacetable, and to give people options. Chalice also left it imediatly soon after it was known, Jessica only did so after the threat from LL to simply block the viewer, and poor qarl joined not even knowing what the hell he was getting in too and too him 2 seconds to make it out.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:26 AM   #1207 (permalink)
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They move to the top right in FUI. Even so...


...this seems like a worthwhile improvement, and might not be that hard to do. I'll take a look.
What about the bigger problem discussed in VWR-27428/FIRE-5174 ?
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:28 AM   #1208 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade
LL says that Emerald is getting blocked, she's suddenly (publicly, I don't care about what may or may not have been discussed privately when her public comments were opposite) got grave reservations about Fractured and wanted to start over fresh.
and thank goodness she did.

Quote:
LL says that true online status is going away, well they never wanted it in Firestorm at all!
Um, TPV developers aren't paid employees of Linden Lab.

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Like I said before, it's easy to pretend principles when you can point to someone else and blame it on them.
Yes, we actually know who orchestrated the DDOS attack - and it wasn't Jessica.

She saved thousands of people from the debacle of Viewer 2. And for that she should be thanked, not flamed in a forum.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:33 AM   #1209 (permalink)
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Actually LGG saved thousands (!) of people from the debacle because people were quickly moving to Emergence before Phoenix even saw the light of day.

Imprudence also saved thousands (!) of people from the debacle because people were also moving there.

Then Pheonix emerged from the ashes and suddenly we forget what very important parts LGG/emergence and Imprudence both played in 'saving the masses'.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:33 AM   #1210 (permalink)
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I never heard of that poll before just now
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:34 AM   #1211 (permalink)
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Grace and dignity under pressure.
That's the funniest thing I've ever read here
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:34 AM   #1212 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Elysium Hynes View Post
and poor qarl joined not even knowing what the hell he was getting in too and too him 2 seconds to make it out.
You know, this makes me think back to the time before the crap went down, when LL actually approached us all for official talks out of the blue, when Emerald was growing like mad and becoming that big thing.

Sitting in their little virtual meeting spot, a sign labled 'Welcome Emerald Viewer Devs' on the wall, us all sitting there with them. I was nervous as hell. Many of us were so damn -proud-.

OH FFS. Things will never be like that again. I want to punch somebody.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:35 AM   #1213 (permalink)
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Actually LGG saved thousands (!)
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Imprudence also saved thousands (!)
THOUSANDS. WOMEN AND CHILDREN. SAVED FROM THE FLAMES. AMEN BROTHERS AND SISTERS, AMEN!
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:35 AM   #1214 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bladyblue View Post
and thank goodness she did.

Um, TPV developers aren't paid employees of Linden Lab.

Yes, we actually know who orchestrated the DDOS attack - and it wasn't Jessica.

She saved thousands of people from the debacle of Viewer 2. And for that she should be thanked, not flamed in a forum.
Lias i am not payed for many things, i still do them properlly i also don´t need a paycheck to show morals or respect the law, there where always plenty od options when it comes to viewers besides V2, i doubt people stopped, logging cause they didn´t have emerald, i will thank people when is see fitting, jessica did nothing for me when my own computer was used to break the law, LGG did by making it public, for that i thank him and the first emerald user who found out what was happening, and was censured on their forums for it.
Flaming someone and being critic of their atitudes are very diferent things, seems you have dificulties seperating both.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:36 AM   #1215 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Belvedere

That's the funniest thing I've ever read here
Its from 'Young Frankenstein'. Hehe
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:36 AM   #1216 (permalink)
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That's the funniest thing I've ever read here
Grace and dignity equates to her and Tonya attacking the entirety of SLU and everyone who posted on it because three people lightly complained about a lack of attribution around features developed by others first.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:42 AM   #1217 (permalink)
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Alright, I suppose it's time I chime in.


My entire SL existence has been spent helping people.. it’s what I love to do more than anything else in SL. I’ve helped teach people how to script, build, use SL, use the viewer, I spent years as a mentor, mentoring residents, then as a mentor coach and mentor buddy, mentoring mentors. When the mentor program was shut down I was left with less avenue to help. I joined the Emerald team because I saw a large opportunity to help a lot of people by creating a support team for the viewers users. By creating a QA program to try and ensure features worked, and less bugs went out to the public. I succeeded in both of those after MUCH work.

I put a hella lot of work into that, a lot of pride and a lot of precious time. I was also very proud of what I had accomplished.

Why did I remain on board when the ship was sinking?

There were only a few bad devs on that project, just a few and they need not be named as you already know who they are. However, there were a LOT of VERY good developers on that team, honest developers who spent a hella lot of time and effort improving the user experience. A lot of good honest hard work went into that viewer. More than that, there were a hella lot of users whose experience in SL was about to be destroyed by a few asshole. I could not in good conscience sit back and let a few idiots spoil the experience for so many people. I could not in good conscience sit back and watch all the work I put into that viewer, and all the work the other ‘honest’ developers put into that viewer be thrown away because of a few immature developers.

I was fighting to keep Emerald alive because it isn’t Emerald that was evil, it was the few assholes who were in charge of it. And I fought them teeth and nails when I found out about the BS they had done. Of course, I was only support lead.. I had no real power.
I stayed on ship, and publicly stated on treet.tv that everything would be ok because I believed I could turn it around. Because I was led to believe that Phox was going to leave and because I believed Arabella would do the right thing.

Was I wrong? Of course I was.. was I naive? Even stupid to believe I could salvage it? Of course I was… I was the one bailing like mad because I thought there was a chance. Quite frankly I was blinded by hope that I could turn it around. Lessons learned and hindsight is 20/20.

But I would NOT have been able to sleep at night had I just quit, knowing that I would be allowing few arrogant idiots to destroy something that was valued by so many. I HAD to try.

It was when I woke up and realized there was no hope, that I forked into Phoenix. It was the only way I could save all that honest work that went into that code and have the residents of second life not lose something they cherished so dearly. A new project with no evil developers. Honest work, to be transparent in what we do, to work to rebuild the trust lost between LL and tpv’s, to rebuild the trust from the Sl community in TPV’s.

No small task considering how much damage was done. And it’s been a rough road, it’s been very hard. In hindsight, had I known then what I know now, had I known how much work running a project team like ours would be I might not have forked. It’s exhausting.

But..at least I can sleep at night knowing I did the right thing. I can sleep at night knowing that a bunch of selfish arrogant idiots didn’t succeed in destroying a huge body of work to which a lot of heart went into, because I did the right thing.

Of course, it’s up to each of you whether you believe a word I say or not. Truth after all, is relative to what people want to believe. But what I offer you here are the facts and reasons I stayed on board emerald while the ship was sinking. Believe what you wish.

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
The Phoenix Project, Inc

Last edited by Jessica lyon; 03-01-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:44 AM   #1218 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysium Hynes
, jessica did nothing for me when my own computer was used to break the law, LGG did by making it public, for that i thank him
Is that the initials of the guy that was the victim of the DDOS attack? Because i was made aware of it when he wrote something about it.

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Flaming someone and being critic of their atitudes are very diferent things, seems you have dificulties seperating both.
It's quite difficult to differentiate between the two when the woman is getting flamed for not doing anything about someone breaking the law on her team when actually she took the code from them and created the product used all over the grid today.

I don't want to be flippant about this - but it seems to be a case of 'Haters gonna Hate.'
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:44 AM   #1219 (permalink)
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Alright, I suppose it's time I chime.
Formatting notwithstanding, I know why you stayed on board. That's the entire issue I have. You think you did the right thing; many others agree with you. I don't, and ultimately my standard is the only one I have to listen to.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:58 AM   #1220 (permalink)
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Then Pheonix emerged from the ashes and suddenly we forget what very important parts LGG/emergence and Imprudence both played in 'saving the masses'.
And you are forgetting that LGG joined the Phoenix team almost immediately and publicly said Emergence would no longer be maintained. If we're such nasty eeeeevil baddies, then why would LGG do that?
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #1221 (permalink)
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You know, this makes me think back to the time before the crap went down, when LL actually approached us all for official talks out of the blue, when Emerald was growing like mad and becoming that big thing.

Sitting in their little virtual meeting spot, a sign labled 'Welcome Emerald Viewer Devs' on the wall, us all sitting there with them. I was nervous as hell. Many of us were so damn -proud-.

OH FFS. Things will never be like that again. I want to punch somebody.

Chalice, as much as I bitch and moan..don't let anyone ever take away from you that feeling of being proud back then. When Emerald first started, it was very innovated and very real. It gave users things we could only dream of having and it seriously DID boost SL in many ways for many people. (and I'm not talking bouncy boobs here!)

Nobody can take that away from you.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:01 AM   #1222 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica lyon
Alright, I suppose it's time I chime in.

My entire SL existence has been spent helping people.. it’s what I love to do more than anything else in SL. I’ve helped teach people how to script, build, use SL, use the viewer, I spent years as a mentor, mentoring residents, then as a mentor coach and mentor buddy, mentoring mentors. When the mentor program was shut down I was left with less avenue to help. I joined the Emerald team because I saw a large opportunity to help a lot of people by creating a support team for the viewers users. By creating a QA program to try and ensure features worked, and less bugs went out to the public. I succeeded in both of those after MUCH work.

I put a hella lot of work into that, a lot of pride and a lot of precious time. I was also very proud of what I had accomplished.

Why did I remain on board when the ship was sinking?

There were only a few bad devs on that project, just a few and they need not be named as you already know who they are. However, there were a LOT of VERY good developers on that team, honest developers who spent a hella lot of time and effort improving the user experience. A lot of good honest hard work went into that viewer. More than that, there were a hella lot of users whose experience in SL was about to be destroyed by a few asshole. I could not in good conscience sit back and let a few idiots spoil the experience for so many people. I could not in good conscience sit back and watch all the work I put into that viewer, and all the work the other ‘honest’ developers put into that viewer be thrown away because of a few immature developers.

I was fighting to keep Emerald alive because it isn’t Emerald that was evil, it was the few assholes who were in charge of it. And I fought them teeth and nails when I found out about the BS they had done. Of course, I was only support lead.. I had no real power.
I stayed on ship, and publicly stated on treet.tv that everything would be ok because I believed I could turn it around. Because I was led to believe that Phox was going to leave and because I believed Arabella would do the right thing.

Was I wrong? Of course I was.. was I naive? Even stupid to believe I could salvage it? Of course I was… I was the one bailing like mad because I thought there was a chance. Quite frankly I was blinded by hope that I could turn it around. Lessons learned and hindsight is 20/20.

But I would NOT have been able to sleep at night had I just quit, knowing that I would be allowing few arrogant idiots to destroy something that was valued by so many. I HAD to try.

It was when I woke up and realized there was no hope, that I forked into Phoenix. It was the only way I could save all that honest work that went into that code and have the residents of second life not lose something they cherished so dearly. A new project with no evil developers. Honest work, to be transparent in what we do, to work to rebuild the trust lost between LL and tpv’s, to rebuild the trust from the Sl community in TPV’s.

No small task considering how much damage was done. And it’s been a rough road, it’s been very hard. In hindsight, had I known then what I know now, had I known how much work running a project team like ours would be I might not have forked. It’s exhausting.

But..at least I can sleep at night knowing I did the right thing. I can sleep at night knowing that a bunch of selfish arrogant idiots didn’t succeed in destroying a huge body of work to which a lot of heart went into, because I did the right thing.

Of course, it’s up to each of you whether you believe a word I say or not. Truth after all, is relative to what people want to believe. But what I offer you here are the facts and reasons I stayed on board emerald while the ship was sinking. Believe what you wish.

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
The Phoenix Project, Inc
Thank You
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:01 AM   #1223 (permalink)
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I totally read this as sexting a prim avatar. Twice. O:
Considering a couple of pictures (both nsfw) I took of Chalice a while back, I can understand this confusion!

...Yeah, that's really all I have to contribute right now.



But you gotta admit, sexy pics is a good distraction, right?
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:01 AM   #1224 (permalink)
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The main reason LGG joined us is because I asked him to. Because I wanted him to help me ensure nothing evil goes into the code. He's still with us today, he's still keeping an eye on things. If 'anything' showed up in our code that was even remotely evil.. Phoenix or Firestorm he would have pointed it out. LGG is my insurance that the project stays on the straight and level. Frankly, if I were so evil I doubt he would still be one of my best friends in SL.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:04 AM   #1225 (permalink)
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Client: catznip,exodus,nirans
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonya Souther View Post
And you are forgetting that LGG joined the Phoenix team almost immediately and publicly said Emergence would no longer be maintained. If we're such nasty eeeeevil baddies, then why would LGG do that?

LLG put emergence out as a quick solution to those who enjoyed Emerald. He stated when he put it out, he would NOT be maintaining it. A viewer for those who trusted and used Emerald the ability to have something 'safe' to use until they could find their own replacement viewer.

His announcement of not maintaining it was not done after he joined Phoenix. That was straight forward from him when he released Emergence because of the Emerald fiasco. Not the other way around.
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LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/alternative-sl-clients/69990-new-tpv-policy-changes.html
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#SL Viewer Policy Change Meeting This thread Refback 02-26-2012 09:12 PM
Viewer för Second Life standardiseras « Prim Team This thread Pingback 02-25-2012 06:40 AM