bladyblue

Oz replied:
So, Oz states his issue is TPVs adding new features. I'm finding it difficult to translate that into a positive statement for TPV users and developers.

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pancake

I last checked this thread on page 13 and when I returned it was on page 36.

I opted to pour a rum and coke and read it backwards... from page 36 to 13.

I am not sure if it made more sense that way, but everyone is much happier and more friendly at the end this way.




ETA - I just noticed today is the one year SLUniversary of my first post

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Joshua Nightshade

Uh so don't reply to the post then.

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Innula Zenovka

I think he gave it as an example of something that happened in the past that wouldn't be now permitted under the new policy. He was at pains to point out, in the audio of the meeting, that there's nothing in any of the viewers -- apart from parcel windlight, which gets the famous free pass -- that's causing concern now, but they're saying that, in future, if anyone's thinking of doing developing new stuff that mean things we can all see are only going to look right if you're using this new feature, you have to clear it with Oz first.

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Kadah Coba

I think the last version of Phoe with the old double attachment points was 373, and there's very few on that version and 225. The next one after 373 was 725 which added LL mutli attach and that was 15 months ago.

The only reason I've heard for people still using 373 is that 725 and above doesn't run for them, for some reason (very old computer?).

Brenda Connolly

After years of laissez faire, LL has decided that they want to have a tighter reign on the furure of SL, aka The Product. Granted, TPV makers have had a lot to do with SL's growth and success, and now they are getting a bit of a bum's rush. But it shouldn't be that surprising. LL has always let the users do most of the heavy lifting, and like they did with the mentors, have decided they've gotten their use out of them and are kicking them to the curb. Not very nice, but proof that under the new regime, LL will be acting more as a for profit company with a product and less like a bunch of San Francisco geeks trying to change the world. Any faint dreams of The Metaverse (tm) have been snuffed out. As the techno elitists here love to say..... "Adapt or die".(tm)

Brenda Connolly

Just thought you'd like to know that today was National Pancake Day

IHOP National Pancake Day - February 28, 2012

Cerise

Yes, yes. Rodvik has been beating the privacy drum since he came in, so it is not a surprise that we see more and more changes there.

The shared experience thing, on the other hand, is not really new, just codified at a time when the policy was already being revised. This wall of text right on SLU from last year shows a good example, "breaks the shared experience" was the cited reason for a viewer's TPVd denial.

Hitomi Tiponi

Thanks Tateru - an interesting set of questions and answers. Sadly it only serves to reinforce my disappointment at LL's action.

bladyblue

Actually it's;

Throw a hissy fit all weekend, and then "Adapt or die".(tm).

Nebula

So now that the thread seems to have gotten back on track a important question would be, what about people who make their own clients? Will they be violating the tos if they add in features like say green and blue particle beams in the shapes of sheep? Or if we have custom menuing systems. Would people be able to be banned for this. Stupid question, but will this effect people who do not try to get their stuff on the tpv list or open source it.

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Kadah Coba

Yeah, that thing... I think mentioned it in one of these threads a couple days ago. There was no chance LL would have accepted that, it pretty much added a external private asset server to add more prims to a region. I think it transmitted object data as a single compressed xml (or something).

Siana Gearz

Well for one, custom menu is not a violation of 2k, it's a user interface choice, not a shared experience. Blue sheep, well, if you look at how particle beams are done in TPVs now, they're actually visible to everyone independent of which viewer they use, so while it is a shared experience, it's not a violation of shared experience.

As with all features which are not malicious in nature, can't really expect them to start swinging the ban hammer right away, they'll talk it out with developer first.

And finally, puh, i'm not very solid on the details of the license, will need to re-read it apropos which sections kick in on usage, which on distribution. None of the new clauses are exclusive to TPVD listed clients.

But in particular section 2k, there is no plausible way in which you can violate it with a client which only you have and don't distribute.

Joshua Nightshade

As was pointed out early on in the thread, the new provisions apply to any clients which connect to the grid and not only ones on the TPV list. Only using it yourself doesn't exempt you from the "shared experience" proviso.

Han Held

If LL declared that was the case, you'd have a million and one copy-bot viewers the next day, each of them "custom" made and "not for distribution".

Which is why that's not the case.

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Siana Gearz

Shared with whom, with yourself? Your head bully team?

The sections 2a, 2i, 2j are of course relevant for a single user viewer though.

Siana Gearz

Copybot viewers don't violate section 2k, they violate section 2a, 2b and possibly a few more.

Ann Otoole

You mean like the way things are and have been all along right?

Ann Otoole

Not really. Open Source grids and Open Source viewers can flourish without LL. If LL kills their product then people will have no choice but to pick a new grid and carry on like it was 2007 with regions that work.

Joshua Nightshade

Ace discussion skills, champ.

Latif Khalifa

Yeah Siana, you need a course in discussion skills from Josh, troll-in-chief himself

Joshua Nightshade

Hey, you're the ones hyperventilating about single off-topic posts. I would think if you want to adhere to the discussion and give an impression of believable maturity like you both seem to think you possess, discussing the topic without insults would be the way to go. Kinda like how your post here doesn't do anything at all to move the discussion along and just gives yet additional evidence of what a foul little baby you are.

You can discuss the topic — as I just did — or you can respond to comments with snippy little bitch replies — like Siana did. I'm cool doing whichever.

Latif Khalifa

So now you're commenting on your commenting style.

Joshua Nightshade

You need a mirror.

Now do you want to discuss the topic or do you want to keep whining? I know what a stickler you are against thread drift; I don't want to cause you any additional stress.

Lance Corrimal

copybotters and copybot developers give a flying shit about TPV policies, TOS, and current law anyways.

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