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Old 02-28-2012, 05:09 PM   #851 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kadah Coba View Post
Every region has crashed at least once now. What a wonderful product LL has for doing virtual meetings.
Funny, that, because I remember being in sims with 60 people that were running more or less lag-free without crashes...in 2007. What's changed since then? a) Mono VM increased reserved memory per script by 4x; b) a tremendous increase in over-scripted avatar attachments. I went to the treet.tv thing for Emerald; one of the "producers" or something...who, oh, the irony, was asking people to remove excess scripted attachments...was wearing 20MB worth of resize-scripted stiff and HUDs. If the sims are crashing repeatedly, the reason is pretty simple: overscripted content, no "eject for excess scripts" at the landing point (which really, should be mandatory for events like this); and people too ignorant, stupid, or selfish to take off their AOs and shoes and whatever else they have on that has scripts.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:09 PM   #852 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
Heh. Multiple sims aren't a great solution for squeezing more people. It means you have a bunch of people in the "ready to transfer over" boundaries around the edges of the sims.

You'd think they'd know that from Ahern.

Maybe someday maybe LL will upgrade their server hardware so that a sim wider than a city block will be possible.
Think that may have been what brought it down - so many people were stuck on the sim borders.

At least I have a seat now.

/me gets out the popcorn
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #853 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadah Coba

Treet.tv's fault, their server was messed up it about 5 minutes ago :/

There's about 300 in the regions already before I frozen, whee
Treet.tv needs an iPhone app.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:17 PM   #854 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivienne Graves
Funny, that, because I remember being in sims with 60 people that were running more or less lag-free without crashes...in 2007. What's changed since then?.
2007 doesn't count. 2007 was our Utopian peak year in Second Life. It is like it all was a technicolor 3D dream that never actually happened - like the '80's.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #855 (permalink)
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We've figured it out, someone(s?) is crashing them over and over.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:19 PM   #856 (permalink)
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Of course
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:24 PM   #857 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz Linden

1) What is meant by shared experience?
...

A shared experience change is one that modifies the definition of the elements that make up the virtual world, or how they behave, in such a way that users on other viewers don’t experience the same virtual reality.
What happened to the words on the Second Life website: "Your World, your reality"?
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:27 PM   #858 (permalink)
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5) Does this mean that text only viewers or "voice only" viewers would no longer be allowed?

No - failing to provide a common feature is not the same as adding a new feature. Users who choose to use such viewers are making a choice that is up to them.
That's from Oz Linden's FAQ. It's not about shared experience, it's about not making a viewer that is better than the official. Being worse is quite fine with them.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #859 (permalink)
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now the Lindens are restarting the sim Jessica was in!

/me will need more popcorn
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:15 PM   #860 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kadah Coba View Post
We've figured it out, someone(s?) is crashing them over and over.
Hah. Bollocks. Sim crashes. Sim comes up. 2 dozen people, wearing between them let's say 60-120MB of attachment scripts, crowd the sim border AND ALL CROSS AT ONCE as soon as it's back. Time dilation falls to 0.01, people fly and run like they're moving in slow motion through frozen treacle...sim crashes AGAIN. Rinse and repeat. "Someone" = all the clueless people who come to these things.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:20 PM   #861 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Latif Khalifa View Post
That's from Oz Linden's FAQ. It's not about shared experience, it's about not making a viewer that is better than the official. Being worse is quite fine with them.
Wow ... you have a unique misunderstanding of the English language and the most obvious method of paraphrasing to suit your argument.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:24 PM   #862 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Vivienne Graves View Post
Hah. Bollocks. Sim crashes. Sim comes up. 2 dozen people, wearing between them let's say 60-120MB of attachment scripts, crowd the sim border AND ALL CROSS AT ONCE as soon as it's back. Time dilation falls to 0.01, people fly and run like they're moving in slow motion through frozen treacle...sim crashes AGAIN. Rinse and repeat. "Someone" = all the clueless people who come to these things.
I'm sure that happened several of the times, but a few people caught someone rezing several physical objects before one went boom, then later someone rezed a security orb with land rights (guessing its an open group with deed for everybody) and started kicking people from the parcels.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:25 PM   #863 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kadah Coba View Post
rezing several physical objects before one went boom
But . . . but . . . NewPhysics(tm) was supposed to make sims Uncrashable(R).

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Originally Posted by Kadah Coba View Post
(guessing its an open group with deed for everybody)
Okay, that's some serious derp right there.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:03 PM   #864 (permalink)
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Phoenix meeting finally finished.

wd to Phaylen and Jessica for sticking through it with all the problems, what I thought of the Rockcliffe admin guy is less complimentary.

I thought Jessica gave some very sensible, and balanced, views about what has happened - and it seems that Oz may be at a similar meeting next week.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:56 PM   #865 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latif Khalifa View Post
Yeah, it's actually Mono's poor support of OS X that is the problem, that's why I don't list Macs as supported platform. Nothing much I can do about it really.

There is one tweak, exporting MONO_MWF_MAC_FORCE_X11 forces it to use X instead of carbon, might work better. Try starting with:

MONO_MWF_MAC_FORCE_X11=1 mono Radegast.exe

I don't have a Mac so I cannot really test this.
Anyanka:radegast-2 kspengler$ MONO_MWF_MAC_FORCE_X11=1 mono radegast.exe
Gtk not found (missing LD_LIBRARY_PATH to libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0?), using built-in colorscheme
20:55:22 [WARN]: - Failed to initialize the sound system:
20:55:25 [ERROR]: - Unhandled System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at System.Windows.Forms.Document.LineTagToCharIndex (System.Windows.Forms.Line line, Int32 pos) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Windows.Forms.RichTextBox.set_SelectionColo r (Color value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) System.Windows.Forms.RichTextBox:set_SelectionColo r (System.Drawing.Color)
at Radegast.RichTextBoxPrinter.set_ForeColor (Color value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatTextManager.ProcessBufferItem (Radegast.ChatBufferItem item, Boolean addToBuffer) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatTextManager.ReprintAllText () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatConsole.UpdateFontSize () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatConsole..ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance instance) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) Radegast.ChatConsole:.ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance)
at Radegast.TabsConsole.InitializeChatTab () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.TabsConsole..ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance instance) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) Radegast.TabsConsole:.ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance)
at Radegast.frmMain.InitializeTabsConsole () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.frmMain.InitializeControls () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) Radegast.frmMain:InitializeControls ()
at Radegast.RadegastInstance..ctor (OpenMetaverse.GridClient client0) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.RadegastInstance.get_GlobalInstance () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.MainProgram.RunRadegast (System.String[] args) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.MainProgram.Main (System.String[] args) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 : Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at System.Windows.Forms.Document.LineTagToCharIndex (System.Windows.Forms.Line line, Int32 pos) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Windows.Forms.RichTextBox.set_SelectionColo r (Color value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) System.Windows.Forms.RichTextBox:set_SelectionColo r (System.Drawing.Color)
at Radegast.RichTextBoxPrinter.set_ForeColor (Color value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatTextManager.ProcessBufferItem (Radegast.ChatBufferItem item, Boolean addToBuffer) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatTextManager.ReprintAllText () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatConsole.UpdateFontSize () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.ChatConsole..ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance instance) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) Radegast.ChatConsole:.ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance)
at Radegast.TabsConsole.InitializeChatTab () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.TabsConsole..ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance instance) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) Radegast.TabsConsole:.ctor (Radegast.RadegastInstance)
at Radegast.frmMain.InitializeTabsConsole () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.frmMain.InitializeControls () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) Radegast.frmMain:InitializeControls ()
at Radegast.RadegastInstance..ctor (OpenMetaverse.GridClient client0) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.RadegastInstance.get_GlobalInstance () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.MainProgram.RunRadegast (System.String[] args) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Radegast.MainProgram.Main (System.String[] args) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

20:55:37 [INFO]: - Error reporting server said: OK: ag1zfnJhZGVnYXN0YXBpchQLEgxlcnJvcl9yZXBvcnQYya8SDA

Anyanka:radegast-2 kspengler$
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Ok, I have to ask, WTF is this thread even about and why is it hundreds of posts? I am out of vodka so I don't feel like reading it to find out.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:26 PM   #866 (permalink)
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Breasticles?
Wouldn't those mean frozen boobs, not flexi boobs? But I guess you're right. Flexibility without all the tentacle-rape-y possibilities.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:30 PM   #867 (permalink)
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[*]Shared experience thing, but died (thankfully) 1.5 years ago.
Now, not taking this out of context--Kadah, you were responding about the multi-attachment points option in Emerald and, I think, later one of the iterations of Phoenix--but the timeline here's making me headtilt, now that I'm thinking about it.

Now, we all know that old viewers exist, and, if they can be made to log in at all, they will be used by SOMEone, but...seriously, if this feature left active development a year and a half ago...WHY are the Lindens freaking out over it NOW?? Anyone know>
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:31 PM   #868 (permalink)
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And then support a badly designed, unscalable hacky protocol forever.
Hardly. We didn't; Phoenix 725 and later converted stuff on the secondary points to multi-attach, pretty much seamlessly.

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Originally Posted by Vivienne Graves View Post
If the sims are crashing repeatedly, the reason is pretty simple: overscripted content, no "eject for excess scripts" at the landing point (which really, should be mandatory for events like this); and people too ignorant, stupid, or selfish to take off their AOs and shoes and whatever else they have on that has scripts.
Sorry, but you're full of prunes. Scripts don't cause what we saw. That's because script execution is the lowest priority task int he sim, and if the sim is too busy, the scripts just don't run.

That doesn't mean that 250-script hair shouldn't be cause for a public burning, but it's not going to crash sims.

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Wow ... you have a unique misunderstanding of the English language and the most obvious method of paraphrasing to suit your argument.
Actually, Latif got that one right. LL's out to level TPVs down to the same as their viewer.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:32 PM   #869 (permalink)
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What species would be acceptable ?
Shrews.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:39 PM   #870 (permalink)
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As promised, I sent in a bunch of the most commonly asked questions about the policy and changes, and have just now received the last of the responses from the Lab and written them up.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:41 PM   #871 (permalink)
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Anyanka:radegast-2 kspengler$ MONO_MWF_MAC_FORCE_X11=1 mono radegast.exe
Gtk not found (missing LD_LIBRARY_PATH to libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0?), using built-in colorscheme
20:55:22 [WARN]: - Failed to initialize the sound system:
20:55:25 [ERROR]: - Unhandled System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at System.Windows.Forms.Document.LineTagToCharIndex (System.Windows.Forms.Line line, Int32 pos) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
I get the same failures. I'll poke at it a bit and see what I can turn up.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:44 PM   #872 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tonya Souther View Post
I get the same failures. I'll poke at it a bit and see what I can turn up.
Maybe it just is not playing nice with other things that use audio i/o?
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:46 PM   #873 (permalink)
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It was actually pretty simple to let other viewers see the secondary attachment points: all they needed to do was copy one file.
Now, are you saying the end users had to copy that one file, or other viewers did? Because around that point I was suffering weird viewer failure about every three days or so, AND fighting really hard to learn V2, so it was V2, Imprudence, Singularity, Imprudence, V2...I can't remember if there were any others around that time I was trying to make work, but there might have been. And NONE of them had anything for multiple attachments.

About the tenth time I saw someone walk by with an obedience collar wrapped around their right EYE, I figured, hey, the world's just going to be surreal right now. I have to cope.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:50 PM   #874 (permalink)
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Now, are you saying the end users had to copy that one file, or other viewers did?
Either. Obiously, LL's viewer wasn't going to incorporate that, and I'm not sure it would have worked in v2, but v1-based viewers (including LL 1.23) could and did use it quite well. The user could copy it in, or a TPV developer could use it (though I don't know of any that did).
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:01 PM   #875 (permalink)
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... Actually, Latif got that one right. LL's out to level TPVs down to the same as their viewer.
I listened to the recording of the meeting (wanted to claw my ears off) and that's only true with regard to incorporating new features which affect how other viewers see the world. That's called stewardship. Just because TPV devs get their noses bent out of shape about this infringing their "freedom" to do anything they want doesn't make them right. I know it's not funny when the tail starts trying to wag the dog and the tail gets bit. But this will blow over because the vast majority of people in SL could care less.
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