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Old 04-29-2011, 03:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Alpha layer in Phoenix

I have had this problem a long time. Some alpha layers don't work in Phoenix. I just downloaded the latest build, 1.5.2.1050 and hoped it was gone.

When I wear the alpha layer included with the shoes, or boots, they don't work. They show as "worn" in inventory. Rebake does not help. Sometimes teleporting to another location helps. Sometimes another alpha layer works. But not always.

Shown here is the problem, it is not so very visible since it is chunky boots. But annoying enough. On female feet in close fitting shoes, it is a major annoyance.

I could wear an alpha layer that came with cybernetic feet, and that worked. Only thing was that all the body disappeared from the hips down. I then tried the included alpha layer that came with the boots. Still didn't work. The cybernetic feet had 2 different alpha layers, 2 different leg options. Only one of the layers worked as they should. The default "no feet" from Library does not work.

I know I can ask in a Phoenix forum, but I just don't want to register in more forums. And I was hoping you could help.
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianne Little View Post
I have had this problem a long time. Some alpha layers don't work in Phoenix. I just downloaded the latest build, 1.5.2.1050 and hoped it was gone.

When I wear the alpha layer included with the shoes, or boots, they don't work. They show as "worn" in inventory. Rebake does not help. Sometimes teleporting to another location helps. Sometimes another alpha layer works. But not always.

Shown here is the problem, it is not so very visible since it is chunky boots. But annoying enough. On female feet in close fitting shoes, it is a major annoyance.

I could wear an alpha layer that came with cybernetic feet, and that worked. Only thing was that all the body disappeared from the hips down. I then tried the included alpha layer that came with the boots. Still didn't work. The cybernetic feet had 2 different alpha layers, 2 different leg options. Only one of the layers worked as they should. The default "no feet" from Library does not work.

I know I can ask in a Phoenix forum, but I just don't want to register in more forums. And I was hoping you could help.
I have this problem when I nudg my graphics to max - minute I push to ultra my alpha layers stop working. So, I use custom from the next level down and make do. I don't know what causes, don't want to get the official viewer to see if it does it on that - suppose could use imprudence to check, but I can't seem to get rid of an odd bubbling affect that drives me nuts.
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Old 04-29-2011, 07:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I had customer in my shop a couple weeks ago that had this same issue with foot alphas. We tried everything I could think of to fix it- alphas made by me, made by someone else, from the library, clear cache, relog, everything. After about an hour we gave up and I refunded the purchase.

I don't have an answer for it unfortunately, just checking in to say you definitely arent the only person having this problem. She was also using Phoenix.

Wish I had a solution for you
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Old 04-29-2011, 07:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I've seen this particularly with the hooves.. it is rather comical to see people floating around with stumps but i can see where that would be aggravating. I usually run phoenix on ultra and havent' had the issue yet *crosses fingers*
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Old 04-29-2011, 08:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes, I use Ultra. And LOD on 6000. I don't think LOD gives me any problems. I can try to go down from Ultra and keep LOD, or nudge it a bit down. Most sculpts need LOD at least on 3-4000 to look good for me. 6000 is a bit "overkill" hehe.

Come to think of it, I had the same problem in Firestorm. I tried a version of that, but uninstalled it because it was crashing for me.
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Is it [#PHOE-1396] Shoes appear broken using Phoenix Viewer, but are ok using Beta Viewer 2 - Phoenix Viewer?
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Do you have Advanced/Rendering/Fast Alpha checked? If so, try unchecking it.
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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No, I don't think it is the same issue. When I wear high heels as those in the post you link to, the system foot is showing around the stiletto heel. She don't mention that. The default feet don't appear to have changed for me when I take off all the shoe parts, including the foot shaper.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Try turning off shadows.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's not just feet.
Alphas in Phoenix and Firestorm have issues. At least for AMD/ATI (before you say it's AMD/ATI, read below!).

If I put everything to max, alphas that fade out, such as hair, no longer work. It's either solid or clear, no in between. This makes some hair look absolutely horrid. As Pebbles said, turning off shadows helps.

If I use Kirstens, this doesn't happen, so it is NOT an AMD/ATI issue.

However, turning up AA on any of the three does create problems, IF shadows are enabled. I either get a dark screen, or my huds disappear. It changes depending on viewer and viewer version.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It has to do with deferred rendering vs non deferred rendering. Non-deferred will make softer alphas, where deferred makes the "hard" ones (colored, or transparent with no inbetween) but renders faster.

Unless someone forgot to add a toggle, you should be able to choose which to use for when shadows/lighting is on. In Kirstens, it defaults to non-deferred.

Why would you use deferred then? Aside from faster, it helps with issues where flexi skirt prims fade under the floor instead of over it, among other odd graphical "layering" issues. I've been TOLD you can make deferred look as soft as non-deferred, but I don't believe it and haven't seen it yet.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inhandra View Post
Why would you use deferred then? Aside from faster, it helps with issues where flexi skirt prims fade under the floor instead of over it, among other odd graphical "layering" issues. I've been TOLD you can make deferred look as soft as non-deferred, but I don't believe it and haven't seen it yet.
The settings you're looking for are RenderAutoMaskAlphaDeferred and RenderAutoMaskAlphaNonDeferred, I think? Unless I'm misunderstanding you. These settings are toggleable through the Developer(CTRL-ALT-Q)->Rendering menu, under the name 'Automatic Alpha Masks (deferred/non-deferred)' in V2.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyotl View Post
The settings you're looking for are RenderAutoMaskAlphaDeferred and RenderAutoMaskAlphaNonDeferred, I think? Unless I'm misunderstanding you. These settings are toggleable through the Developer(CTRL-ALT-Q)->Rendering menu, under the name 'Automatic Alpha Masks (deferred/non-deferred)' in V2.
I think you might be misunderstanding me, but at least you answered where to find it in Firestorm if it doesn't have a toggle box yet.

The question in there I answered myself. But, if you do have any knowledge on how to make deferred rendering look as soft as non, I'd love to know about it. I run with deferred on because otherwise I get irritated with skirt parts and tails suddenly going half transparent and slipping under floor tiles, but then hair and tails look jagged.
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Inhandra, have you tried using your graphics card to do Anti Aliasing rather than the viewer? There was a tip in the kirsten's forums that I followed and i have no jaggies any more, AND my framerates are amazingly improved.

Use the graphics card control panel to set your Anisotropic filtering and Anti Aliasing, and turn them OFF in the viewer. Also, does the soft setting for deferred in Kirsten's help at all for you? I tried it but I can't see a difference...might depend on your hardware though.
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabb Dilweg View Post
Also, does the soft setting for deferred in Kirsten's help at all for you? I tried it but I can't see a difference...might depend on your hardware though.
There's a huge difference between deferred rendering and non-deferred, and that's what has been discussed, not anti-aliasing, and the soften slider in S21 doesn't seem to do a thing. Deferred rendering is less glitchy, but it creates hard borders for semi-transparent textures. I'll get some pictures soon of what I mean, because I could talk until I'm blue in the face and most of y'all will have no idea what I'm speaking of.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ok, here's that image I promised. Between these shots, NO ANTI-ALIASING CHANGED. I've actually been having nVidia control panel do my AA for a few days now because someone mentioned it might be faster/better. But, that's beyond the point because I get these results even with in-software AA.



As you can see, there's visual advantages to using either. With the Damselfly hair (and most hair/tails in general), it looks a lot BETTER in non-deferred. The soft edges of the hair texture, where it gradually fades into transparency, looks as it should. When deferred rendering is on, that gradual transparency goes away and it goes strictly from colored to not-colored.

But, with non-deferred, we have odd layering/clipping issues. Skirt prims, tails, etc can suddenly fade out and appear under floors/other things as well as some appear over things they shouldn't. The tails were the easiest example to reproduce, so I used those as I wasn't sure which of the zillions of skirts in my inventory would be a better example when something already attached at my butt would suffice.

So, see what I mean?

I've been told one can get deferred to look "as soft as" non-deferred, and the advantage to that is then you don't have weird issues in the lower two boxes, but I've yet to see anyone who tell me how. That soften slider doesn't appear to do anything.

ETA: The layering/clipping problem occurs in many places, not just where I happened to be standing for these shots. The only place it seems garunteed to NOT happen is while standing on Linden ground.
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Last edited by Inhandra; 05-15-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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