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Old 02-27-2011, 12:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Who said anything about inferiority? I said you have abysmal manners and questionable social skills. Which you still seem to be demonstrating.
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:41 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Returning to the original question about the viewer, I've used it for some time and I really like it. I'm using Catznip most of the time, but certainly Singularity is my preferred Snowglobe-based viewer at the moment. It's very fast and stable, and got everything I liked about Ascent plus all the stuff from Phoenix and Cool VL I wished Ascent had, just about.

And when I've spoken to Siana in-world, I've found her very helpful indeed.
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Old 02-27-2011, 03:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I use Singularity with one of my alts. I'm a bit paranoid about viewers I use with my main avatar.

I use most viewers as I find them. I think the series 1 & 2 viewer interfaces are horrible. I would love to find one that has a user interface that a total noob could figure out easily. The Skylight browser based viewer was interesting in that regard. But, I have yet to find what I consider a good noob interface. Explaining how to change one's do to a friend new to SL is a PITA.

The result is I am interested in viewers. That has turned into blogging about them. My experience with Singularity is here: Singularity 1.5.3 Viewer Review
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Old 02-27-2011, 03:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:33 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Hi Siana I couldn't help but notice you disregarded this bit:
Quote:
// The following animations were made by Charley Levenque and are
// not public property or free to use via UUID. When replicating
// this code, please supply your own animations.
Please remove the pose stand or update the animations tia

Also thanks to Nalates for bringing up all the features from Ascent when reviewing Singularity.

Math functions for the build menu is an Imprudence feature ported into Ascent.
Copy/paste params was a Nano feature initially, to my knowledge. Ascent also did some work on making the texture version more TOS compliant.
You are also right, Security was originally Privacy, it was changed because we originally were planning more security features.

Unless Siana's removed things from Ascent, features also include:
Hex value color support and UI tweaks to clean up the color picker layout
The ability to save multiple day cycles
Copy/paste in text fields - Also something from Imprudence, I believe.
There's a "bug" with viewer 2.0 that sets the away timeout to 0 seconds if you turn off idle away. In 1.x viewers, this causes the client to report you away constantly. Ascent, and therefore Singularity, handles this a little more gracefully.

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.oO(if Henri just wasn't such an unapproachable arse who doesn't respond to IMs or contact me when he bugfixes my patches?)
I'm sure everyone polices who downloads their files and sends out notifications when they change it!!! Henri was polite and easy to get hold of from my experiences. He responded to IMs and on his forum when I asked him about one of the patches.


As for Siana herself, my only experience with her was her showing up in the Ascent IRC channel. I can't vouch on whether one can trust her or anything, just that I also found her to be a bit of a pain to deal with and kind of agree with Joshua on that point. Just in case you're wondering why I declined your multiple friend offers. :V
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Last edited by Beeks; 02-27-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:38 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Hello Beeks.

Sorry, i haven't disregarded the animation clause on purpose, i haven't been aware of that. I kind of have the habit of reading code, not comments. The animations will be removed then for upcoming release (ETA 1 week tops, if that's convenient enough for you) and the pose stand will be limited to single grid-default appearance-editing animation, until we reach any kind of agreement there if you're willing to, or anyone else supplies other animations without such restriction.

I don't recall removing much any Ascent feature, though i suppose some might have gone broken eventually in the code churn, haven't quite checked, there sure are tons. Thanks to bringing to my attention the ones which i missed, i'll add them to information.

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Originally Posted by Beeks View Post
I'm sure everyone polices who downloads their files and sends out notifications when they change it!!! Henri was polite and easy to get hold of from my experiences. He responded to IMs and on his forum when I asked him about one of the patches.
You got it backwards, i can keep track of HIS original patches myself just fine and i do credit him when i take from him. Having MY patch pop up among his is another matter entirely, and ok, nice, but uncredited and uhm "bugfixed"... I mean sure, his privilege to an extent, but doesn't mean that i have to like it, do i? If i find a bug in someone's code, i do tell them privately, unless i have a personal problem with that particular someone, which is rarer than you might think - if someone would ask around some other TPV teams, they might see some people there finding me nice enough to work with. Would anyone even say the same about you? And while i can totally see why you'd have a problem with me (completely regardless of Singularity), i can not see a single reason why Henri would.

Quote:
just that I also found her to be a bit of a pain to deal with
Yes i tend to complain a bit too much at times. Horrible eh?

Last edited by Siana Gearz; 02-27-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:06 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I have started using Singularity now, and already I really like it.

No need for me to go into detail as Nalate has already covered it very well in her review Singularity 1.5.3 Viewer Review

I've been using Imprudence for about six months, but after using Singularity for an hour or two, I discovered that I prefer it, for several reasons...

-- It seems to be under more rapid development currently, and I expect there will be some more improvements in future - although it's already ahead of the competition in V1 viewers.
There were some understandable reasons for Imprudence's devs not being able to work on it for a while, but I must admit loyalty is not the highest priority for me when it comes to choosing a viewer. I use what I will enjoy the most.

-- It was difficult to find things in Imprudence. Their idea of a more "logical" rearrangement of menu items and dialogs never worked for me, and I'm relieved to be back with a more standard arrangement of UI items. It was easy to find everything in Singularity, and quick for me to do all the usual customization of settings needed after installing a new viewer.

-- Features galore! Siana has collected together all the neatest features from the other TPVs plus some of her own. As far as I know, no other TPV has such a complete collection of goodies - but it doesn't seem at all bloated, and performance is very good.

It will take a while to discover how it compares to other TPVs for stability. So far it's been fine.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:45 AM   #33 (permalink)
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The only UI skins available in the current version 1.5.4 were Dark and Default. I much prefer the Silver skin so I copied its skin files from Ascent (from inside its source zip, so I wouldn't have to install it) guessing Ascent is probably closest to the Singularity UI, and it worked just fine.
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:13 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I've been using it in InWorldz the last couple of days. Pretty smooth, and stable. I like it except I've found it difficult to re-connect after I've used it. It gets stuck in the 'loading world' stage. It stores some files (settings, etc) in the Second Life folder then seems to get hung up when trying to retrieve (or replace?) them. If I go to the second life folder and delete these files manually then I am able to connect. Some other minor issues, but I really enjoyed using and will most likely continue to do so.
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:14 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocent View Post
The only UI skins available in the current version 1.5.4 were Dark and Default. I much prefer the Silver skin so I copied its skin files from Ascent (from inside its source zip, so I wouldn't have to install it) guessing Ascent is probably closest to the Singularity UI, and it worked just fine.
Ehr yes, Ascent skins are likely to work. Skins from other viewers usually crash Singularity.

There had been a plan to replace default skin with Silver and rename Default into Classic, however this has proven a bit difficult because of special-ness of Default and breakage of other skins.

The rest of the skins are all still there in my source code repository, including Silver, and are likely to work for now. Plan is to test them all eventually that they don't crash and don't misbehave, and then make a separate package of them and Installer for Windows.

Last edited by Siana Gearz; 02-28-2011 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:42 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sunshine Carami View Post
It stores some files (settings, etc) in the Second Life folder then seems to get hung up when trying to retrieve (or replace?) them. If I go to the second life folder and delete these files manually then I am able to connect. Some other minor issues, but I really enjoyed using and will most likely continue to do so.
Do you have a more or less precise recolletion of log-in sequence that caused trouble for you? Which viewer, which grid each log-in. And which files you deleted to remedy the situation, and whether this problem is reproducible. I'd like to resolve this problem if at all possible. You can contact me under siana.gearz@googlemail.com

One problem i'm aware of is, each grid may have a number of their own specific assets bound to the same unique identifiers as on other grids, which can corrupt cache because viewer's expectation that unique identifier always corresponds to same content, is broken. Clearing cache from the viewer between logins should suffice to resolve this.

I'd like to be informed of every even minor issue too, even if i can't promise to resolve them all.
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:24 AM   #37 (permalink)
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It happens each time I log in. Does not matter if I've crashed or logged out normally. I've only used Singularity on InWorldz. I log in, ID/PW are accepted, see the 'region handshake' message, start to hear the inworld ambient sounds, then the viewer stops during the 'loading world' stage. Have let the 'loading world' stage go for a half hour to see if it were just a slow connection; but it never loaded and I kept hearing the ambient sounds. I tried manually clearing cache, even uninstalled/reinstalled the viewer. The only thing that worked was deleting those files.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:57 AM   #38 (permalink)
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By trial and error, I discovered how to get the AO working.

Nalate's blog review for Singularity 1.5.3 links to a help page about the AO in Phoenix. Maybe the version she tested used the AO from Phoenix. The current current Singularity 1.5.4 uses a different builtin AO which doesn't work like the one described in that Phoenix help page.

On the Singularity menu, there are two items: Enable AO and Edit AO.
In the Edit AO window, first select the type of animation, such as Walk or Stand, which you wish to set. Then in the second dropdown list select the animation itself - it shows a huge list of every animation in your inventory. When you have picked one, remember to click the + button, so it gets added to the list at the bottom. (I only selected one Run, one Walk and several Stands.) Then click the Save button. Browse to a suitable folder on your hard drive and give it a filename. The extension will be .ao

There's no need to move your animations into a special folder, as the AO Editor will find all the animations from everywhere in your inventory. Also it doesn't use any notecards. It's very different from the AO I was used to in Imprudence.

BTW, If you look at the anyname.ao file in a text editor, it's a typical xml file, but there's no need to edit it in a text editor - that's what the AO Editor in Singularity is for.

You can make several different .ao files in the AO Editor, saved with different filenames, listing different animations, and easily switch between them with the Load button.
I like to have a fairly comprehensive one with a walk, a run, and several stands and sits in it etc, and a much simpler saved .ao file with only a walk in it, for times when having stands and sits in an AO disrupt animations in furniture or cuddle huds etc. (I don't like to turn off the AO completely or I'll have the clumsy default LL walk when going from one piece of kinky furniture to another during a session.)

If you have several stands in one .ao file, there doesn't seem to be any way to select how they cycle - such as randomly or in sequence and the timing. So the AO is quite basic with few options, but it has the main advantages of a builtin AO, such as less lag and working in no script places.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:37 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocent View Post
Nalate's blog review for Singularity 1.5.3 links to a help page about the AO in Phoenix. Maybe the version she tested used the AO from Phoenix. The current current Singularity 1.5.4 uses a different builtin AO which doesn't work like the one described in that Phoenix help page.
No, she made a negligence there. Singularity has never had Emerald style AO and always had Ascent AO (a rewrite of Inertia AO) - not good one for consumer, as it can't read ZHAO notecards, but very good for testing animations as it is a full fledged editor and you can simply drag and drop animations from your inventory onto the AO.

By popular consumer request, Ascent AO will be removed as of 1.5.5 and replaced with Emerald-Style AO ported from Imprudence, including quick remote control, and ability to work from any inventory folder, provided notecard and animation are in the same folder. If further requests come, the advanced pane of Emerald style AO can be reworked into a proper editor.

Oh and please don't write off Imprudence quite yet. There is certainly no motion to speak of in the main repository because the weeklys have ceased for now and main team is having a break, but contributors such as Thickbrick and Robin have been working in their private repos quite solidly, and they're quite great really. Of course in the long run, Imprudence is presumably to be replaced by Kokua, but that's still a while away.

Last edited by Siana Gearz; 02-28-2011 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:06 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Wake me up when one of these viewers gets a built in AO that works from an attached prim.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:01 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Wake me up when one of these viewers gets a built in AO that works from an attached prim.
Sleep well, dear comrade, sleep well.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:56 PM   #42 (permalink)
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When it is on the tpv will test more. I am waiting for mesh to be released before I continue more along with the autobuild system.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:08 PM   #43 (permalink)
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No, she made a negligence there. Singularity has never had Emerald style AO and always had Ascent AO (a rewrite of Inertia AO) - not good one for consumer, as it can't read ZHAO notecards, but very good for testing animations as it is a full fledged editor and you can simply drag and drop animations from your inventory onto the AO.
Ah good, drag and drop from inventory is much easier than using the method I described, picking them from that long dropdown list.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:53 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Technically, the Ascent one was designed more off of the Gesture window than anything. Shame that the actual backbone of it is total ass - My fault, entirely. I'm pretty okay with UI, but after handling that I rushed the actual AO code.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:35 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siana Gearz View Post
We will be upgrading to V2 technology "under the hood", hoping to support more new features, in fact we're working on it now! However the UI will stay V1-style, for as long as we can keep it.
Happy to read this! Means you will continue to work on snoglobe 1.5 base and import v2 core tech?

And another question: like Phoenix you imported Inertia's Message log, what about its counterpart, the message builder? Surely not the gadget for the masses, but for interested people a nice plus.

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Old 03-04-2011, 07:25 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Happy to read this! Means you will continue to work on snoglobe 1.5 base and import v2 core tech?
To an extent yes - hard to tell where's core and where isn't since separation between UI and everything else isn't very good, but yeah, that's the long term goal to an extent.

Quote:
And another question: like Phoenix you imported Inertia's Message log, what about its counterpart, the message builder? Surely not the gadget for the masses, but for interested people a nice plus.
No. I believe Phoenix and Ascent used to have it at some point - purged for Linden TOS compliance and general anti-abuse reasons. If i were to bring it back, i'd have to build in grid detection and enable it on Beta, non-public and localhost grids only. As you say, it's not a popular request - if you want this, offer me an incentive.

In other news, i got in touch with Henri and my accusation turned out to be hot air. I issued an apology on the web site.

Last edited by Siana Gearz; 03-04-2011 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Now listed on TPVD. We're in the very basement - among clients for which no (sufficient) crash data is available. I welcome everyone to try their best to crash Singularity, such that we acquire enough crash data to move to the top list!
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:54 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:04 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I've been using Singularity for a while and I've found it to be very fast, and I'm glad that it's taking the Ascent codebase and continuing it.

I've been meaning to play around with the code for it, but I can't get the code to compile under VS2005 (Siana told me it was unlikely to work under VS2005, but I had to try), and I've installed VS2008 but still having issues.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:03 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siana Gearz View Post
Now listed on TPVD. We're in the very basement - among clients for which no (sufficient) crash data is available. I welcome everyone to try their best to crash Singularity, such that we acquire enough crash data to move to the top list!
I will crash you silly in world any time you want
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