SLUniverse Forums - View Single Post - Minimal requirements for a free, open, effective society?

CaleVinson · 07-04-2009, 01:35 AM

OK. I don't want to be "sneaky" here, so, yes, this thread was inspired by some of the discussion in the Ban the Burqa thread, and I will feel free to take any consensus we may reach here (yeah, right, like *that's* going to happen

) back to that thread. But I also feel that a discussion on this topic has its own intrinsic merit too.

So, my question is: what are the minimal requirements we can come up for a society that is said to be free, open, and effective. The following is my first stab, which I feel free to modify, or reject entirely on the basis of subsequent discussion.

A) Access to political power is uniform for all citizens

I think this is currently "epic fail" for even the western democracies. "One person, one vote" is a good start, but the amount of money spent on political campaigns is proof to me that a rich person has more political clout than a poor person.

B) Rule of law

Independence of the judiciary and all that good stuff.

C) Regulated Capitalism

This is why I included "effective" in my list of societal principles. Its no good having a in-principle Utopian society in which no-one produces anything.

I have no problem with more/better work == better reward, but in the absence of effective regulation I see lots of ways to access rewards without contributing anything to society to justify this.

D) Equality of Opportunity

This is a "biggy" for me, on both moral and economic grounds.

Life can never be truly fair, so we will never meet this goal, but we should strive to get as close as possible to it. And certainly, we should have no policies that work against it.

Lack of commitment in this area undermines Capitalism (C). Put crudely, you can't reward someone for winning the 100m sprint, when you tied boulders to the other competitors.

(D) can be broken down into components:

D.1) Universal access to a basic level of health-care.

D.2) Universal access to a basic level of education.

D.3) Universal access to justice and the rule of law.

E) Freedom to do whatever you like, that does not harm others or conflict with the proceeding principles

One immediate corollary of this is that "thought crime" cannot exist, because my thoughts, in and of themselves, cannot harm anyone else. It is the *actioning* of those thoughts that is the problem.

It also follows that there can be no privileged "moral stance" in such a society, based on religion or anything else. You are free to hold whatever moral stance you like, for yourself, but may not action that against others.

=========

Well, there's my attempt. Its undoubtedly wrong, lets see if we can improve it.

For myself, it'd be nice if people took note of that "minimum" in minimum requirements. But do as thou wilt.

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ADDED IN EDIT

I'd like to keep notes in one place as people make corrections, additions, etc.

1) Right to privacy (Brenda Archer, Post #2)

07-04-2009, 01:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
CaleVinson Hypersonic Absolutist Fully Zeno certified Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,506	Minimal requirements for a free, open, effective society? OK. I don't want to be "sneaky" here, so, yes, this thread was inspired by some of the discussion in the Ban the Burqa thread, and I will feel free to take any consensus we may reach here (yeah, right, like that's going to happen ) back to that thread. But I also feel that a discussion on this topic has its own intrinsic merit too. So, my question is: what are the minimal requirements we can come up for a society that is said to be free, open, and effective. The following is my first stab, which I feel free to modify, or reject entirely on the basis of subsequent discussion. A) Access to political power is uniform for all citizens I think this is currently "epic fail" for even the western democracies. "One person, one vote" is a good start, but the amount of money spent on political campaigns is proof to me that a rich person has more political clout than a poor person. B) Rule of law Independence of the judiciary and all that good stuff. C) Regulated Capitalism This is why I included "effective" in my list of societal principles. Its no good having a in-principle Utopian society in which no-one produces anything. I have no problem with more/better work == better reward, but in the absence of effective regulation I see lots of ways to access rewards without contributing anything to society to justify this. D) Equality of Opportunity This is a "biggy" for me, on both moral and economic grounds. Life can never be truly fair, so we will never meet this goal, but we should strive to get as close as possible to it. And certainly, we should have no policies that work against it. Lack of commitment in this area undermines Capitalism (C). Put crudely, you can't reward someone for winning the 100m sprint, when you tied boulders to the other competitors. (D) can be broken down into components: D.1) Universal access to a basic level of health-care. D.2) Universal access to a basic level of education. D.3) Universal access to justice and the rule of law. E) Freedom to do whatever you like, that does not harm others or conflict with the proceeding principles One immediate corollary of this is that "thought crime" cannot exist, because my thoughts, in and of themselves, cannot harm anyone else. It is the actioning of those thoughts that is the problem. It also follows that there can be no privileged "moral stance" in such a society, based on religion or anything else. You are free to hold whatever moral stance you like, for yourself, but may not action that against others. ========= Well, there's my attempt. Its undoubtedly wrong, lets see if we can improve it. For myself, it'd be nice if people took note of that "minimum" in minimum requirements. But do as thou wilt. ================================================== ================================= ADDED IN EDIT I'd like to keep notes in one place as people make corrections, additions, etc. 1) Right to privacy (Brenda Archer, Post #2) Last edited by CaleVinson; 07-04-2009 at 02:19 AM.